D&D 5E Challenging 15th level PCs, a Tier III Finale Play Report

[LordEntrails]

Thanks for sharing. Glad to hear it was fun and exciting.

Interesting discussion and questions from folks.

 

[cmad1977]

This can't be true! Everyone 'knows' that 5e is broken! Especially at high levels!


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[OB1]

The main thing I'm puzzled about is why the lich's phylactery was right there the whole time, practically just waiting to be destroyed as an afterthought as soon as the lich herself was. It wasn't even a separate game session, just the denoument of the battle. If that's how a lich treats her phylactery she might as well not even have one. Shouldn't it be, well, hidden in a demiplane or in a hole at the bottom of the ocean? Were there special circumstances in play?

(And if I were a PC in that campaign, I'd be paranoid about the possibility that the thing we just destroyed WASN'T the phylactery, but only a decoy. Because that's what I'd do if I were a lich.)

Not sure if this is RAW, but my belief is that for a lich to gain it's lair actions the phylactery must actually be in the lair. From this, I made the decision that the lich was taking a calculated gamble to lure the PCs to her lair because she needed them to complete her ritual. As intelligent as she was, she was also arrogant, and with good reason, she would have won the battle if not for the sacrifice of the Monk and the Wizard, a possibility that she could not see due to her selfish nature.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Not sure if this is RAW, but my belief is that for a lich to gain it's lair actions the phylactery must actually be in the lair. From this, I made the decision that the lich was taking a calculated gamble to lure the PCs to her lair because she needed them to complete her ritual. As intelligent as she was, she was also arrogant, and with good reason, she would have won the battle if not for the sacrifice of the Monk and the Wizard, a possibility that she could not see due to her selfish nature.

Ah, I see. Given your assumptions, I can see how the rest would follow.

FWIW, the MM suggests that liches keep their phylacteries in a secret, protected location. It gives the example of a demi-plane where a lich keeps its phylactery and spellbook; it also suggests that destroying a phylactery should be a quest in and of itself. "Destroying a lich's phylactery is no easy task and often requires a special ritual, item, or weapon. Every phylactery is unique, and discovering the key to its destruction can be a quest in and of itself."

Just as the One Ring could not be un-made without the fires of Mount Doom, a typical lich's phylactery is not only hidden and protected but also nigh-invulnerable. If I were one of your players, not having access to the out-of-game information you've shared on this thread about how you view liches, I would be terrified that the phylactery we had just destroyed was a fake and that the real lich was just laughing at us and biding her time for sweet revenge. But then, I'm always paranoid about liches* when I'm a player.

[*] The only way to make (pretty) sure that you've really got the REAL phylactery is to kill the lich's physical form, then set up guards and wards around the "phylactery" waiting for the lich's body to re-form. At that point you can kill the body again and be pretty sure that you've got the real phylactery and not a decoy.

 

[OB1]

Ah, I see. Given your assumptions, I can see how the rest would follow.

FWIW, the MM suggests that liches keep their phylacteries in a secret, protected location. It gives the example of a demi-plane where a lich keeps its phylactery and spellbook; it also suggests that destroying a phylactery should be a quest in and of itself. "Destroying a lich's phylactery is no easy task and often requires a special ritual, item, or weapon. Every phylactery is unique, and discovering the key to its destruction can be a quest in and of itself."

Just as the One Ring could not be un-made without the fires of Mount Doom, a typical lich's phylactery is not only hidden and protected but also nigh-invulnerable. If I were one of your players, not having access to the out-of-game information you've shared on this thread about how you view liches, I would be terrified that the phylactery we had just destroyed was a fake and that the real lich was just laughing at us and biding her time for sweet revenge. But then, I'm always paranoid about liches* when I'm a player.

[*] The only way to make (pretty) sure that you've really got the REAL phylactery is to kill the lich's physical form, then set up guards and wards around the "phylactery" waiting for the lich's body to re-form. At that point you can kill the body again and be pretty sure that you've got the real phylactery and not a decoy.

You are giving me sweet and cruel ideas for Tier IV. Thank you


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[FormerlyHemlock]

Noted in passing: I bet Drawmij was a lich. Phylacteries are one of the only truly justifiable excuses for the existence of Drawmij's Instant Summons in 5E: unlike a spellbook, you can't just make a copy. And you need to retrieve it every so often in order to feed it.