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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ltheb Silverfrond" data-source="post: 3071245" data-attributes="member: 39867">I think that to really get a perfect sense of the EL range differences at different levels, one would need to examine the range of capabilities of the average PC.At levels 1-3, most monster have ACs about 11-15, which any PC not suffering from a low ability score should be able to hit. (and a lucky crit swings the fight either way) Likewise, Saving throw DCs are 11-15. As PCs gain levels, the range of ACs fall into three catagories: - Allways hit (Total to-hit bonus > AC) - Usually hit (Total to-hit bonus about two to nineteen less than AC) - Never hit (Total to-hit bonus twenty or more points lower than AC)Likewise, saving throw DCs fall into similar catagories.The trick is discerning the predicted growth of this range of numbers, and building the EL system to match that range.Four level 1 characters cannot hope to defeat a CR 10 monster. Four level 50 characters won't have much problem defeating a CR 60 monster, because their acceptable range of challenges has expanded in every area. Sure that CR 10 monster may have a weakness that the level 1 characters could exploit to win, but likely it isn't going to save them on a daily basis. Conversely, the level 50 characters are so focused in their areas of mastery that they can continue using their tactics on foes who possess resistances to those tactics (Ex: Grapple a dragon) and still show strong success rates.The trick to building encounters with your system U_K would be to anticipate, since most deities only have 4 items, that each probobly only give one kind of bonus to one area, their range of possible numbers and to scale the system based on the expansion over time of that range.EX: Lets say a level 100 Rogue has a cloak of resistance 50. Lets say his high save (Reflex) is total 102 before attributes, and his low is now 83 (Fort and will).Lets say his highest attribute is Dex, with 98, and his lowest is 13. (Constitution, hes a sickly elven assassin. Poisoned himself a few too many times)We will say for kicks his Wisdom is 50.So the rogue's saves are F: 84, R: 146, W: 103.That rogue's range of acceptable save span from DC 86 (Trivial) to  DC 113 (Impossible for fortitude saves) to DC 165 (Impossible on everything)Thats a 79 point span of save DCs that would likely challenge that rogue and his compatriots in an adventure. A Level 1 rogue with 18 dex and 8 con, 12 wisdom, no items, has F: -1, R: 6, W: 1. The level 1 character's span is 26.Using the above example, that level 100 rogue can "Generally" handle the save DCs from things of CR 76 to 155. (Assuming the Monster's Save DCs are aproximate with it's CR, about CR+10. They never are this way in practice though)Now, that rogue example only had 2 magic items factored in - Cloak of Resistance, and probobly a set of Gloves of Dexterity. The rogue probobly has an Enchanted Short Sword, so he or she can tackle appropriate ACs for his or her level, and perhaps a Ring of Protection, so his or her AC is not lacking, or enchanted armor.The trick would be to plot these ranges on a graph for each level and class and draw a line of best fit. This line would probobly quadratic in nature, and would be difficult to adjucate definitly for lopsided characters. (Ones that pour all their resources into one area, likes attack bonuses or saves. they will never fail in that area, even it the challenge is much greater than them (probobly 2 or three times their level) but will certainly fail in every other area)Bah! Brain hurting. The oldschool train of thought - PCs Level +12 doesn't cut it for EL +0 difficulty classes, because it is never certain if a given PC can make that DC, or if it is trivial to everyone - just doesn't cut it.</blockquote>

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