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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pssthpok" data-source="post: 3155856" data-attributes="member: 34725">UK,How are you?I have another conundrum... whichStop me at any point where I mess up...Random Intermediate Deity (InDy); 68 HD.Challenge Rating and Encounter Level:68 HD = CR (*2/3) 45 + 40 (w/equipment) = CR 85. alternatively CR 113 sans the 2/3 factor; which method do I use to determine InDy's CR?Now, looking at the assumed CRs versus a 8-man party of 30th-level characters we find that InDy proves to be an unpredictable challenge... even though his AC easily breaks 100, his attacks the same, and if fine-tuned can have Bardic suggestion save DCs well over 100 as well as 10 15th-level spells per day.Using CR 85 we get an EL 26... Compare to an 8 person party of 30th-level builds:-using Class Levels to determine EL ala v5.: 8 30th-level characters (EL 26) treat him as an EL +/-0 (i.e. 300 XP/HD, or 9000 XP each)-using Class Levels summed and divided to determine PEL ala v4.: 8 30th-level characters (PEL 32) treat InDy as a PEL -6 (i.e. 37.5 XP/HD, or 1125 XP)Which of the above methods is correct? EL or PEL?Using CR 113 we get an EL 28... marginally more realistic, but not as drastically as I should imagine.Using EL we get 18,000 XP per character with a victory.Using PEL we get a standard encounter (75 XP/HD, or 2250 XP) with a victory.In your debate on WotC, you stated many times that CR equals ECL, but the templates in Ascension do not support this statement, hence the different entries for CR and ECL modifiers granted by the template. I'll use ECL in place of CR though, to see if it pegs InDy's relative power sufficiently above a party of twice-as-many-as-normal PCs of less than half InDy's HD, and almost 1/3 of his CR... divine ranks and abilities not withstanding. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />Effective Character Level and Encounter Level:68 HD + 60 (w/equipment) = ECL 128. Assuming that ECL equals CR, this makes InDy an EL 29... hmph.What's wrong with this picture? Should PEL be completely disregarded? On the low end, it doesn't make sense to use EL for PCs since the yields are so high, but in this case it seems only fair to use EL since otherwise the PCs get practically nothing for defeating a creature 38 levels and 12 divine ranks over them.Furthermore, why, if CR = ECL, are there separate modifiers for these numbers in the templates? Am I doing something wrong?</blockquote>

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