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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 3158797" data-attributes="member: 326">Hi Pssthpok mate! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I'm not sure I follow you?Make the CR higher for the deity? Why not just give them more hit dice or greater power or somesuch...?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> Have you tested such an encounter - do the PCs win easily?Well you are facing a number of statistical dilemmas.1) At epic levels characters shouldn't face off against any individuals more than four times as powerful as themselves.2) You sought to get round that problem by simply escalating the number of PCs. If you simply had five L30 PCs against a 60 HD intermediate deity (CR 80), it would be an EL +8 encounter, meaning almost certain death. But the EXP rewards would be immense. 75 x Level x 16 = 36,000 in this case.Why would you add the template CR modifier instead of the template ECL modifier. I mean you are crossing the streams right there.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> I think I may have made a mistake working out the EXP in my previous post.For 16-23 L30 PCs taking on a CR 80 individual it would have been an EL +4 ecounter.Meaning the EXP would be 75 x Level x 4 = 9000 EXP each.Well 4-5 (technically 5) PCs are roughly equal to something double their individual power.16-23 (technically 20+) PCs are equal to something quodruple their individual power.So 16-23 CR 20s are equal to 1 CR 80 = EL +8 encounter.Remember an equal CR is EL +4, because thats a 50/50 encounter.So 4-5 CR 20s are equal to 1 CR 40 = EL +4 encounter.Does that help you any?Feel free to give me a number of situations and I will determine the EL, CR and EXP for you. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />For two reasons.1) You are dealing with an extreme situation.2) Using an epic individual with power greater than quodruple that of any PC is almost certainly going to lead to their defeat, regardless of how many PCs you use to try and shore up the difference.  What you are dealing with is an absolute extreme situation. Which means that for the PCs to win its going to have to be some sort of miraculous series of events.Always happy to help mate. It can be very tricky getting the hang of ELs.</blockquote>

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