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<blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 3799731" data-attributes="member: 4722">Small wonder the designers decided to toss out the whole system - even they couldn't figure it out. Does monster CR=2/3 ECL mean that LA = 1/3 CR?Now, with all this discussion about 4E monsters and the lack of the CR system and such, I've been looking over v5, trying to work a few things out. That system's a mess, for one thing - it's really hard to figure out (for me, at least) how to determine ELs. For example:Five L5 PCs vs. a CR 5 creature. What's the EL? CR 5 says EL 10; but doesn't the number of PCs have an effect on that, too? Logic would dictate they'd wipe the floor with that lone CR 5 beastie, but I can't find the part where PEL factors in, beyond XP award. Do you just take the average ECL of the party and compare that to the EL? That's what I'm gathering from the examples you provided... But that means the CR 5 beastie is an impossible fight for them, because it's EL +5. If you apply the -4 modifier from Table 2-2 (for 5 PCs), that's still an EL 6 encounter - or EL +1, a &quot;nemesis&quot;. I totally don't get it... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown&nbsp; &nbsp; :("&nbsp; data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />And your system says that an encounter of equal level uses up 100% of the party's resources (which I find patently silly)... but 4E is being balanced around the assumption that an encounter of equal level uses only 25%. So which is right? Granted, they ditched the CR system, but how are they going to ensure that it works?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kerrick, post: 3799731, member: 4722"] Small wonder the designers decided to toss out the whole system - even they couldn't figure it out. Does monster CR=2/3 ECL mean that LA = 1/3 CR? Now, with all this discussion about 4E monsters and the lack of the CR system and such, I've been looking over v5, trying to work a few things out. That system's a mess, for one thing - it's really hard to figure out (for me, at least) how to determine ELs. For example: Five L5 PCs vs. a CR 5 creature. What's the EL? CR 5 says EL 10; but doesn't the number of PCs have an effect on that, too? Logic would dictate they'd wipe the floor with that lone CR 5 beastie, but I can't find the part where PEL factors in, beyond XP award. Do you just take the average ECL of the party and compare that to the EL? That's what I'm gathering from the examples you provided... But that means the CR 5 beastie is an impossible fight for them, because it's EL +5. If you apply the -4 modifier from Table 2-2 (for 5 PCs), that's still an EL 6 encounter - or EL +1, a "nemesis". I totally don't get it... :( And your system says that an encounter of equal level uses up 100% of the party's resources (which I find patently silly)... but 4E is being balanced around the assumption that an encounter of equal level uses only 25%. So which is right? Granted, they ditched the CR system, but how are they going to ensure that it works? [/QUOTE]

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