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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9313634" data-attributes="member: 93670">That bold bit is really the critical problem caused by 5e's bonus action ranged healing word as the default.&nbsp; Even if the gm changes it so they can push the party to work together it's just a hollow bluff.&nbsp; Should the players call that bluff and refuse to step up their tactics or teamwork in any way the gm is pretty much just driving their campaign off a cliff killing PCs with players who are absolutely certain that there was nothing that they could have done[USER=7030563]@ECMO3[/USER]&nbsp; You keep mentioning that these were with a &quot;professional DM&quot; but each time ignore the responsibility that players have for protecting the necks of their own PCs &amp; the good of the party, it doesn't matter if Gary Gygax Dave Arneson Ed Greenwood Keith Baker Monte Cook &amp; so on are all co GMs of this game because the root cause of the breakdown you displayed is found&nbsp; in player choices.&nbsp; Exploring dark dungeons with unseen things that could fall from the ceiling is one of the risks the party needs to take into account. Clearly they were more worried about being caught in the same trap than being split up by a surprise encounter... perhaps the knowledge that they could act recklessly and still be safe thanks to healing word had significant weight in that choice.&nbsp; WRT the dragon, that has always been one of the risks in fighting dragons where the party needs to balance the risks of being&nbsp; too grouped up &amp; all/most/many getting hit by a breath weapon vrs the risks of being over extended and unable to assist anyone who might suddenly need it, once again healing word saved them from needing to give it much concern. Using other PCs as meat shields for a squishy is a time honored tradition going back to the earliest editions, there is a fine line between too close for the squishy's safety&nbsp; and too far for support.... clearly that party saw the line &amp; kept running because healing word allowed them to do it without needing to lean on support abilities like battlefield control.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9313634, member: 93670"] That bold bit is really the critical problem caused by 5e's bonus action ranged healing word as the default. Even if the gm changes it so they can push the party to work together it's just a hollow bluff. Should the players call that bluff and refuse to step up their tactics or teamwork in any way the gm is pretty much just driving their campaign off a cliff killing PCs with players who are absolutely certain that there was nothing that they could have done [USER=7030563]@ECMO3[/USER] You keep mentioning that these were with a "professional DM" but each time ignore the responsibility that players have for protecting the necks of their own PCs & the good of the party, it doesn't matter if Gary Gygax Dave Arneson Ed Greenwood Keith Baker Monte Cook & so on are all co GMs of this game because the root cause of the breakdown you displayed is found in player choices. Exploring dark dungeons with unseen things that could fall from the ceiling is one of the risks the party needs to take into account. Clearly they were more worried about being caught in the same trap than being split up by a surprise encounter... perhaps the knowledge that they could act recklessly and still be safe thanks to healing word had significant weight in that choice. WRT the dragon, that has [I]always[/I] been one of the risks in fighting dragons where the party needs to balance the risks of being too grouped up & all/most/many getting hit by a breath weapon vrs the risks of being over extended and unable to assist anyone who might suddenly need it, once again healing word saved them from needing to give it much concern. Using other PCs as meat shields for a squishy is a time honored tradition going back to the earliest editions, there is a fine line between too close for the squishy's safety and too far for support.... clearly that party saw the line & kept running because healing word allowed them to do it without needing to lean on support abilities like battlefield control. [/QUOTE]

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