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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tymophil" data-source="post: 5525643" data-attributes="member: 46923">Maybe it is time for a sum-up... From what I read in the most interesting posts of this thread, here's what I gather.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Metagaming is all over the place in roleplaying games : combats are metagaming, NPC interaction are metagaming, even movement is metagaming.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Puzzles are a tool for the DM to give a challenge to the players, like any other type of encounter ingredient (combat, terrain, skill tests, etc.).</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Puzzles, like any kind of encounter, can be encapsuled into another encounter to spice it up.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Puzzles must be planned ahead like any other kind of encounter. They can be structured into a skill challenge, they should be in context, they should be in character, they should be optional, they should not be action stoppers.</li> </ul>If you replace puzzles by combat, you get the same list : combat is a tool, it should be planned ahead, it should be optional, not action stopper, etc.I think that poorly implemented puzzles are what people dislike, and rightly so. Every badly set encounter is a bad thing.On the other hand, I have problem with players who want to play dumb characters. They just don't make any sense to me, as a GM. I would not, as a real person or a D&D character, risk my life alongside a stupid guy that is dumb...One last think, I belong to a generation where puzzles where part of the fantasy paradigm : classical mythology (Sphynx riddle, Odysseus cunning), Tolkien riddles, etc. I think the new generations my see things in another light, and would discard this kind of challenge because they simply don't belong to the fantasy genre as they see it.Nor do I like players that simply sit back waiting for other players to get the work done on any type of encounter... Puzzle included ! That's why I always make sure that the puzzle is one feature of a skill challenge where everybody can contribute, as a player/PC.</blockquote>

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