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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tymophil" data-source="post: 5528802" data-attributes="member: 46923">I never claimed otherwise...It is hard to disagree with you there... My experience, though, is that some people will play stupid character in a way that will ruin everyone else fun. Other play them as forgetfull, clueless ones, without trying to ruin the scenario, nor the other players fun. I guess you would call them good players, and then we would agree.I may be a little too demanding, but I think a good player is someone that will enhance the experience of other people with his roleplay : players and gamemaster alike.Moreover, what I like with Dungeons & Dragons 4 is that all player characters are involved.Would you still play with someone that insists on playing stupidly on each and every combat ? How long would such a character last ? How long would your character last with such a stupid character on your side ? How the gamemaster would feel when the stupid guy is acting in a way that makes each encounter a deadly one, when it should be a challenging one ?I guess your answer is that a player that ruins the game because he insists on playing in a way that ruins everyone else fun is a bad one... My point is that it is very easy to do that with a stupid character, and it is even easier to justify ruining the fun all around.I try to put my puzzle inside a skill challenge of sorts. I also try to build them in character. Every player should put all efforts to play this kind of scene as any other kind of scene, especially in D&D4, where all is done to involve everyone.It is not a stupid character. It is a clueless one. A real stupid one would have insisted in keeping telling people to worship floor. In fact, this is not the kind of behaviour I pointed out.As you surely guessed, the behaviour I dislike is people insisting on playing stupid people stupidly, even at the expense of other players and gamemaster alike.In a parody, such a behaviour is "in character".I could not agree more. It is always a good idea to spice up any kind of character with a little bit a "dumbness" or "cleverness".The problem I have with stupid characters is that most people I met (who instist on playing them) play them dumbly in a selfish way, and justify their (bad) attitude by pointing at the Intelligence score on the character sheet.Sure it is nice to have some flaws in a character, they enhance the experience. But they should never get in the way of other players and gamemaster fun. With a stupid characer it is much too easy to cross this line... At least, this is my experience.I guess that most of my players play dumbly from time to time, and so do I (both as player or gamemaster). The "good" player would (role)play in character (dumbly at times) without interfering in a bad way with the fun of everyone else. So this behaviour goes unnoticed by me. Therefore, I only remember the bad behaviours.Your labelling of players in "good" or "bad" player maybe the best one.</blockquote>

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