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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 7372006" data-attributes="member: 6677017">The thread on fighters as skill monkeys got me thinking.Personally, I think Champions are okay. They are usually a bit weaker than most other fighter subclasses, but they have things that those others don't (such as an initiative bonus and second fighting style) that sometimes makes them the more desirable choice for a character concept.However, I'm very open to a simple way to improve them. (Honestly, I hope the Brute subclass in UA becomes a choice of some alternate subclass features for Champion, rather than a brand new class with a different theme that better fulfills the simple fighter role. It may sound picky of me, but I really don't like the idea that if I want the more effective simple fighter, it comes prepackaged with a "brutish" theme. Same problem as the Berserker fix called "Zealot". Works great for those who don't mind reskinning theme, but there is some sort of contradictory design philosophies going on there.)One thing that occurred to me, is that maybe the Champion's theme could encompass the skill monkey warrior hero, at least in a certain sense. There has been lots of talk about how to improve Remarkable Athlete as part of Champion improvements, but perhaps it could be focused on as something that could carry the entire weight of the improvements.It's late and I'm tired, but the kind of things I'm thinking of might be to rewrite the feature to grant:-Proficiency bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution checks that you don't already add your proficiency bonus to, and-Double proficiency bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution checks that you are already proficient in(Adding a 1/2 proficiency bonus whether or not you are proficient, while simpler, contradicts a basic rule about proficiency bonuses only ever being applied (even if in doubled or halved format) once. You can't add your bonus, plus half your bonus.)This would mean that if the fighter took the four skills that Remarkable Athlete could apply to, they would effectively end up with Expertise in those four skills, plus proficiency in Initiative and the occasional physical check that doesn't allow for a skill.The Dex skills would let them be a great roguish sort of hero also.Anyway, just some late night tired thoughts.</blockquote>

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