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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shemeska" data-source="post: 2371287" data-attributes="member: 11697">Well they set themselves up for this when they gave deities full out stat blocks, not avatars but the deities themselves, but then also try to claim that those beings are afraid of a CR 21 Kezef (whose watered down stats would make Mask be able to kill him in a heartbeat) etc. At that point if you want to stay true to the flavor, you've got to make him comperable to them, at which point PCs are effectively doggie treats for him. It's not that I want a CR 80 Kezef, it's that I want EEEs that live up to their history and flavor, and by giving deity stat blocks in 3e, they've raised the bar on those beings to the point that it isn't in the realm of possibility for PCs.But no, they didn't rationalize with the flavor text, they just watered the EEEs down.I don't think that they (the deities) should have stat blocks beyond divine rank and portfolio unless it's avatar stats. Likewise something similar for the EEEs, because by their history and flavor these beings are at that same scale. God forbid there's something out there that PCs can't beat up and kill, archfiends and elder eternal evils have just been sitting on their inferal butts doing nothing, waiting for PCs to come and kill them. If you dilute them for the purpose of letting PCs kill them for kewl treasure and XP than why haven't the deities themselves done this already? It makes no sense. No longer are they Elder Eternal Evils, they're mediocre evils with good PR people that the gods and any of a few hundred wizards just haven't gotten the time yet to take care of.I'd have been satisfied with no stats for the EEEs, or stats for avatars/manifestations them, with the explicit note that killing those forms wouldn't actually kill them. Might banish them from Toril for a short period of time, but they couldn't be killed by mortals. Heck, maybe give them something that was detrimental to deities, perhaps they ignored deific granted abilities entirely, that would have been rather cool.But no, what we have is a CR 21 Chaos Hound that any of a hundred mortals in FR could kill by themselves, let alone any of the dieties that are supposed to be afraid of him. As I said before, that's terrible.</blockquote>

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