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Message: <blockquote data-quote="buzz" data-source="post: 3409370" data-attributes="member: 6777">HERO 5th has point guidelines for various campaign levels and types. The GM putting those guidelines in place is HERO's equivalent of M&M's PL cap. Def 20 is at the top of the scale for Standard 350pt supers. Def 35 is up in the top end of the 600pt supers range. It's not fair of you to hold M&M to one standard and HERO to another in order to make your argument.20 is not the average. I don't know kind of campaigns you were playing in where starting supers were walking around with 35 Def. Even nonresistant, a high STR brick would have to shell out upwards of 50 points for 35 PD/ED. Make that Def resistant and add another 30-40 points or so. That's a very big investment for a 350pt super, assuming they had a GM crazy enough to allow it.This isn't an issue of breaking rules. The issue is that you're slanting your comparison by pitting an attack that would be on the low end for even a 150pt Fantasy HERO character against a tough 350pt superhero. 5d6 is only barely more dangerous than a household electrical socket in HERO. That's totally bogus.Basically, you're taking some rational M&M stats and pitting them against completely skewed HERO numbers and calling it an accurate comparison. You decided +5 = 5d6 instead of picking a HERO attack that had anywhere near the equivalent power. An equivalent would be a vanilla EB 20% less effective (DC25 vs. DC20) than the top end for a 350pt super (80 APs, i.e. 14d6). That'd be 10-11d6, not 5d6.That you're dismissing Advantages and Active Point totals makes this discussion even more pointless.On top of this, we've derailed a polite, helpful thread into a system pissing match.Thing is, I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make. That M&M does a better job of balancing PCs of different overall combat effectiveness? I dunno. Maybe it does, though the flip side of your argument, i.e., that even a PC with their Toughness at the PL max can get hit by some schmuck with +5 Damage, isn't doing a lot to convince me. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />The real irony, too, is that I really like M&M. My issue is simply your numbers.</blockquote>

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