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<blockquote data-quote="Patryn of Elvenshae" data-source="post: 2202404" data-attributes="member: 23094">So, I guess you only get to make one Disguise check per disguise, huh?So, the question then becomes, &quot;What constitutes a 'use of the skill'&quot;?Obviously, it must be a complete disguise.*If you are using both Alter Self and Disguise Self to make a single disguise, then both bonuses apply.* - Why must it be a complete disguise?Because to assume otherwise leads to all kinds of stupidity.&nbsp; Let's assume that a thin human male wants to disguise himself as an elven female.&nbsp; In order to make his disguise, we'll assume that he must alter his ears, his eyebrows, and his bustline, as well as apply some make-up.When do you make the disguise roll?According to those who say that the two spells / abilities may not be used in concert, you must here make 4 separate Disguise rolls: once to disguise himself as a human with funny ears, once to disguise himself as a human with altered eyebrows, once to disguise himself as a human male with breasts, and once to disguise himself as a human male wearing some make-up.Why such craziness?&nbsp; Because:So, he gets slightly better circumstance modifiers each time he adds something new to his disguise, and since the results of the previous disguise are &quot;discarded,&quot; this requires four rolls with increasingly better modifiers.Do you agree that this is a pretty silly way to rule?Then, similarly, altering your physical form as one aspect of a disguise, followed by cloaking yourself with illusion magic as another aspect of that same disguise, are summed up with a single Disguise check with the appropriate modifiers.&nbsp; The two spells / abilties must stack.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Patryn of Elvenshae, post: 2202404, member: 23094"] So, I guess you only get to make one Disguise check per disguise, huh? So, the question then becomes, "What constitutes a 'use of the skill'"? Obviously, it must be a complete disguise.* If you are using both Alter Self and Disguise Self to make a single disguise, then both bonuses apply. * - Why must it be a complete disguise? Because to assume otherwise leads to all kinds of stupidity. Let's assume that a thin human male wants to disguise himself as an elven female. In order to make his disguise, we'll assume that he must alter his ears, his eyebrows, and his bustline, as well as apply some make-up. When do you make the disguise roll? According to those who say that the two spells / abilities may not be used in concert, you must here make 4 separate Disguise rolls: once to disguise himself as a human with funny ears, once to disguise himself as a human with altered eyebrows, once to disguise himself as a human male with breasts, and once to disguise himself as a human male wearing some make-up. Why such craziness? Because: So, he gets slightly better circumstance modifiers each time he adds something new to his disguise, and since the results of the previous disguise are "discarded," this requires four rolls with increasingly better modifiers. Do you agree that this is a pretty silly way to rule? Then, similarly, altering your physical form as [b]one aspect[/b] of a disguise, followed by cloaking yourself with illusion magic as [b]another aspect[/b] of that same disguise, are summed up with a single Disguise check with the appropriate modifiers. The two spells / abilties [b]must[/b] stack. [/QUOTE]

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