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<blockquote data-quote="Kurotowa" data-source="post: 2205857" data-attributes="member: 27957">Although I wasn't responding to you, as I look back at your post I think I did cover your point.&nbsp; Just because unnamed bonuses can stack does not mean they do stack.&nbsp; As the spells point out they are creating a disguise, not enhancing it.&nbsp; If you put an illusion on top of a transformation, all that is seen is the illusion.&nbsp; With Disuise Self a male elf, half-elf, or half-orc would all gain the same +10 to disuise themselves as a human female.&nbsp; So why would it matter would it matter which of those bodies you take on with Alter Self or as a Changeling before you use the Disguise Self?Because Alter Self and Disguise Self have the same degree of mastery with a disguise (+10), we must infer that neither is better than the other at fooling others as to who and what you are, even if the Disguise Self does things that Alter Self does not (illusionary clothing and equipment).&nbsp; If both do the same thing (create a disguise) with the same result (+10), how can they be combined?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kurotowa, post: 2205857, member: 27957"] Although I wasn't responding to you, as I look back at your post I think I did cover your point. Just because unnamed bonuses [b]can[/b] stack does not mean they [b]do[/b] stack. As the spells point out they are creating a disguise, not enhancing it. If you put an illusion on top of a transformation, all that is seen is the illusion. With Disuise Self a male elf, half-elf, or half-orc would all gain the same +10 to disuise themselves as a human female. So why would it matter would it matter which of those bodies you take on with Alter Self or as a Changeling before you use the Disguise Self? Because Alter Self and Disguise Self have the same degree of mastery with a disguise (+10), we must infer that neither is better than the other at fooling others as to who and what you are, even if the Disguise Self does things that Alter Self does not (illusionary clothing and equipment). If both do the same thing (create a disguise) with the same result (+10), how can they be combined? [/QUOTE]

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