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<blockquote data-quote="Emerikol" data-source="post: 6004704" data-attributes="member: 6698278">Let me explain here for some people a little bit about the history of D&amp;D.Early on D&amp;D was huge.&nbsp; The 800lb gorilla as they say.&nbsp; No one was close.&nbsp; So other companies designed games to chip away at D&amp;D's marketshare.&nbsp; They didn't take D&amp;D head on.&nbsp; If what they offered was just another flavor of the same exact game, people would just buy the original.In the beginning these guerilla warrior games, focused no realism.&nbsp; D&amp;D is not realistic they'd cry!&nbsp; And promptly give us oodles of complex rules and obscure tables.&nbsp; (Palladium/Rolemaster I'm looking at you).&nbsp; D&amp;D crushed them all.&nbsp; Any sales chart that included D&amp;D wouldn't even show these other games.Then some things changed.&nbsp; The new guys tried another tactic.&nbsp; Story games.&nbsp; World of Darkness being a popular one.&nbsp; They lightened the rules a LOT.&nbsp; Talk about DM empowerment.&nbsp; It was all DM empowerment.&nbsp; These games contrasted strongly with D&amp;D because once again you can't take on the juggernaut head on and win.People were all the time saying &quot;D&amp;D needs to get with it and join modern times.&quot;&nbsp; They were saying this of course while D&amp;D was crushing these &quot;modern&quot; games in the market.&nbsp; The demand for D&amp;D was there.&nbsp; Yes a lot of people liked the story games and those types of games did far better than their predecessors.&nbsp;&nbsp; Still D&amp;D was a giant standing next to ants.So given all the above, there has always been a strong demand for what D&amp;D offers.&nbsp; The play style the tropes, everything.&nbsp; As the mainstream leader, it is of course in the interest of WOTC to capture as large a marketshare as possible.&nbsp; So they listened to those who were complaining and decided to produce a game far more in line with &quot;modern&quot; design principles.&nbsp; They made those people who were complaining very happy.&nbsp; They also made everyone else unhappy.Due to the OGL, D&amp;D branched.&nbsp; Pathfinder became another flavor of D&amp;D.&nbsp; A flavor that hewed far closer to the 800lb gorilla of the past.&nbsp; Now D&amp;D is a strong name and we can argue back and forth but my gut says that they are close enough to be thought of as 50/50 even if in reality its a few percentage points one way or the other.&nbsp;&nbsp; Effectively the 800lb gorilla became two 400lb gorillas.&nbsp; And I might add due to all the retroclones perhaps they are both 350lb gorillas.WOTC is now faced with a strategy that has to include the following...1.&nbsp; Recapture traditional D&amp;D players who abandoned the game over 4e.2.&nbsp; Retain 4e players who having gotten a game more to their liking will be harder to please than if 4e had never happened.3.&nbsp; Perhaps strike at an untapped group, the pre-3e players who never converted.&nbsp; This group I believe to some degree is also falloff from 4e.&nbsp; Meaning when a person quits 4e they don't automatically go to Pathfinder or 3.5e.&nbsp; Most do one or the other (about 50/50 of those that do as I see it).&nbsp; But many returned to their roots.&nbsp; They were tired of the complexity and bulkiness of 3.5e.&nbsp; So they returned to retroclones.&nbsp; This group is not insignificant.I'm not sure if they are going to succeed or not.&nbsp; I'm not even sure what success means to them.&nbsp; I do think their decision to sell all editions in pdf form was a great idea.&nbsp; No sense making it easy for Pathfinder.&nbsp; I root for D&amp;D because its where I started.&nbsp; But even I won't play a game I dislike just to be supportive.&nbsp; I hope.&nbsp; I do think modules are more important than compromise.&nbsp; Compromise makes a lukewarm drink.&nbsp; People wanting it cold wont like lukewarm but neither will people who want it hot.&nbsp; So to me it would be better for them to focus on some smart modules that targets particular groups and lifts the game for each side in these wars.&nbsp; Obviously not everything can be a module and compromise is necessary.&nbsp; But I fear too much compromise will ruin it for all.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Emerikol, post: 6004704, member: 6698278"] Let me explain here for some people a little bit about the history of D&D. Early on D&D was huge. The 800lb gorilla as they say. No one was close. So other companies designed games to chip away at D&D's marketshare. They didn't take D&D head on. If what they offered was just another flavor of the same exact game, people would just buy the original. In the beginning these guerilla warrior games, focused no realism. D&D is not realistic they'd cry! And promptly give us oodles of complex rules and obscure tables. (Palladium/Rolemaster I'm looking at you). D&D crushed them all. Any sales chart that included D&D wouldn't even show these other games. Then some things changed. The new guys tried another tactic. Story games. World of Darkness being a popular one. They lightened the rules a LOT. Talk about DM empowerment. It was all DM empowerment. These games contrasted strongly with D&D because once again you can't take on the juggernaut head on and win. People were all the time saying "D&D needs to get with it and join modern times." They were saying this of course while D&D was crushing these "modern" games in the market. The demand for D&D was there. Yes a lot of people liked the story games and those types of games did far better than their predecessors. Still D&D was a giant standing next to ants. So given all the above, there has always been a strong demand for what D&D offers. The play style the tropes, everything. As the mainstream leader, it is of course in the interest of WOTC to capture as large a marketshare as possible. So they listened to those who were complaining and decided to produce a game far more in line with "modern" design principles. They made those people who were complaining very happy. They also made everyone else unhappy. Due to the OGL, D&D branched. Pathfinder became another flavor of D&D. A flavor that hewed far closer to the 800lb gorilla of the past. Now D&D is a strong name and we can argue back and forth but my gut says that they are close enough to be thought of as 50/50 even if in reality its a few percentage points one way or the other. Effectively the 800lb gorilla became two 400lb gorillas. And I might add due to all the retroclones perhaps they are both 350lb gorillas. WOTC is now faced with a strategy that has to include the following... 1. Recapture traditional D&D players who abandoned the game over 4e. 2. Retain 4e players who having gotten a game more to their liking will be harder to please than if 4e had never happened. 3. Perhaps strike at an untapped group, the pre-3e players who never converted. This group I believe to some degree is also falloff from 4e. Meaning when a person quits 4e they don't automatically go to Pathfinder or 3.5e. Most do one or the other (about 50/50 of those that do as I see it). But many returned to their roots. They were tired of the complexity and bulkiness of 3.5e. So they returned to retroclones. This group is not insignificant. I'm not sure if they are going to succeed or not. I'm not even sure what success means to them. I do think their decision to sell all editions in pdf form was a great idea. No sense making it easy for Pathfinder. I root for D&D because its where I started. But even I won't play a game I dislike just to be supportive. I hope. I do think modules are more important than compromise. Compromise makes a lukewarm drink. People wanting it cold wont like lukewarm but neither will people who want it hot. So to me it would be better for them to focus on some smart modules that targets particular groups and lifts the game for each side in these wars. Obviously not everything can be a module and compromise is necessary. But I fear too much compromise will ruin it for all. [/QUOTE]

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