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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6014066" data-attributes="member: 48965">But using party level as the basis doesn't accomplish this does it? When using the encounter building guidelines, a 1st level party can have a range of encounters that include higher than level +2... yet when using party level as the basis for the chart for the DC's by challenge level in DMG 1, it confines the DC's for a first level party to those for levels 1-3 and on the other hand confines a 3rd level party to DC's between thise appropriate for level to level -2 challenges... This is the problem that arises when it is based off party level as opposed to encounter level.&nbsp;&nbsp;See and even with this example there are issues when using the rules in DMG 1... if the PC's go to explore the City of Brass when they are level 21 then the DC's they encounter will be based on a party level of 21... however if they return at level 27, suddenly anything that hasn't been established in their previous visit... has harder DC's. Yet, basing it on encounter level resolves these issues... All I'm saying that outside of presentation there are flaws in the actual rules as they were presented in DMG 1 for DC's by level.&nbsp;&nbsp;EDIT: Manbearcat, I think you're example works when you use giant disparities like heroic vs. epic tier DC's but there's wonkiness when you are within the same tier and are exploring similar things and yet DC&quot;s that haven't been pre-set continue to scale with party level... for some people (since I can fully acknowledge it a be a non-starter for some/many/most who play 4e.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 6014066, member: 48965"] But using party level as the basis doesn't accomplish this does it? When using the encounter building guidelines, a 1st level party can have a range of encounters that include higher than level +2... yet when using party level as the basis for the chart for the DC's by challenge level in DMG 1, it confines the DC's for a first level party to those for levels 1-3 and on the other hand confines a 3rd level party to DC's between thise appropriate for level to level -2 challenges... This is the problem that arises when it is based off party level as opposed to encounter level. See and even with this example there are issues when using the rules in DMG 1... if the PC's go to explore the City of Brass when they are level 21 then the DC's they encounter will be based on a party level of 21... however if they return at level 27, suddenly anything that hasn't been established in their previous visit... has harder DC's. Yet, basing it on encounter level resolves these issues... All I'm saying that outside of presentation there are flaws in the actual rules as they were presented in DMG 1 for DC's by level. EDIT: Manbearcat, I think you're example works when you use giant disparities like heroic vs. epic tier DC's but there's wonkiness when you are within the same tier and are exploring similar things and yet DC"s that haven't been pre-set continue to scale with party level... for some people (since I can fully acknowledge it a be a non-starter for some/many/most who play 4e. [/QUOTE]

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