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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5351184" data-attributes="member: 18280">In order to further the discussion, allow me to posit:1.  Saying Final Fantasy III is different than Final Fantasy does not mean that Final Fantasy has changed.  It means they put out another game with in the same family.  The makers ensure that the difference between games is prominent, because that is what causes the new version to sell.  If Final Fantasy XXX came out without clear indications that it was a new game, no one would buy it.2.  Likewise, D&D 4 is a different game from AD&D 1.3.  If the D&D Red Box prominently said "D&D 4" in the same way a Final Fantasy makes its version prominent, my complaint in the original thread vanishes.  It is my perception of an intent to make D&D 4 appear like another game (Mentzer Red Box), and thereby mislead the consumer, that is at the root of my complaint.4.  This is not at all different from buying the new version of Life and discovering it is not at all what you expected or wanted.  To my mind, this re-inforced the primary complaint -- direct testimony that unexpected changes made to rules packaged to look like other rulesets don't necessarily go over well with consumers.I would be interested also in some idea of the degree of changes that you see between versions of games.  For example, Basic D&D and AD&D 1e and AD&D 2e are all different, yet they are all compatable enought to easily run modules from any one of those systems using any others.  The degree of essential change is, IMHO, rather slight.We might also look at the period of change.  One major change to a set of rules over the course of 20-40 years is hardly analogous to what happens with rpgs, nor would it lead a non-gamer to conclude that an rpg he bought 20 years ago was going to be completely different when he buys it for his grandkids 20 years later.My point was not that change does not occur.  My point is that change of the scale between the orignal Red Box and the new Red Box does not tend to occur in other types of games during the timeframe it does with rpgs, and a casual gamer is unlikely to expect the degree of change that has occurred.Remove the context of the point (quoted in the OP), and it suddenly seems to make sense to compare apples to Harley Davidsons.  Within the context, though (time frame and degree), I would like to hear what comparable changes to other types of games have actually occurred.  Life seems to be an example of a large change in a short timeframe, and I don't hear people saying that they either expected it or found it a pleasant surprise.RC</blockquote>

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