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Changes to Combat from my Experience
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<blockquote data-quote="SBMC" data-source="post: 2489446" data-attributes="member: 30040"><p><strong>Historical inaccuracies and assumptions</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Won’t see it coming…what if the opponent is as skilled as you are? Would it then be so easy and decisive? You mentioned Kali and Jeet Kune Do as your specialties; Jeet Kune Do (for those of you who do not know this is Bruce Lee’s Style he created) was designed in an era without armor and Kali is from a culture with virtually no armor.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">There is a distinctive difference in how cultures make war dependant upon the tools at hand. Without armor speed and agility are what is important. A single cut can end a combat quickly; and that cut need not have a great deal of pressure applied when made. However when one needs speed and agility they also need space to move; mass combat takes on a brand new look; and without it…things get messy for everyone.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Most advanced cultures (not all) (Japan, China, Europe) all used armor for obvious reasons – and shields. </span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Thus: TWF takes EXCEPTIONAL speed and agility to execute effectively – hence the very high DEX scores required in the DnD rules. Read on for more evidence…</span></span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">And what if the other guy knows what he’s doing to?</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Miyamoto Musashi's “Ichi Ryu Ni” style is what you are referring to; written in the 1600’s. It went through several name changes before his death in 1645. There is a whole lot of world history prior to 1645; a whole lot. Many also think that this guy laid some sort of major foundation for combat in Japan – he did not. His works were unique and survived the times is all. </span></span></span><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">As a matter of fact this man was a Ronin!</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">This is where historical fact differs greatly from your theories as well as modern martial arts teachings in America (which are ripe with inaccuracies). This writing and another by the same author is frequently used as a backup for insinuating that TWF is superior to shield use and two-handed weapons - it is not. That is proven directly and by comparison of masters time and time again in history; old and new. Go to the ARMA website and start reading some essays on swordsmanship and tactics – you will find the opposite of what you have just said is true. A skilled one weapon user has greater control over his weapon as well as a reach, balance and power advantage - you still assume the opponent is weaker than you. </span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">-----------------------------------------------------------</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">I chose to find some places that everyone could access to validate what I am saying:</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Related Links:</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: white"><a href="http://www.samurai.com/5rings/" target="_blank"><span style="color: white"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">http://www.samurai.com/5rings/</span></span></span></a></span></p><p><span style="color: white"><a href="http://www.nitenichi.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color: white"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">http://www.nitenichi.com/</span></span></span></a></span></p><p><span style="color: white"><a href="http://www.geocities.com/georgemccall/ken.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: white"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">http://www.geocities.com/georgemccall/ken.html</span></span></span></a></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">-----------------------------------------------------------</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">As a backup for the use of <em>some</em> warriors in Japan wearing two swords:</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: white"><a href="http://www.samurai.com/5rings/ground/27.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: white"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">http://www.samurai.com/5rings/ground/27.html</span></span></span></a></span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: white"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Two swords</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">The samurai wore two swords thrust thru the belt with the cutting edges upward on the left side. The shorter, or companion, sword was carried at all times, and the longer sword was only worn out of doors. From time to time there were rules governing the style and length of swords. Samurai carried two swords but other classes were allowed only one sword for protection against brigands on the roads between towns (see Translator's Introduction). The samurai kept their short swords at their bedsides, and there were racks for long swords inside the vestibule of every samurai home.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">-----------------------------------------------------------</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Anyone feel free to look this up elsewhere; you will find that the samurai were the only ones to wear two swords and that they actually DID NOT use TWF as a practice. Why? Because in actual practice so few can effectively do it not to mention that the use of armor requires a greater use of force in blows amongst other things (some noted elsewhere above).</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Now: the samurai were not exactly your average fighter; they were the elite of the elite like the knights of Europe. They knew how to do battle as an art not a trade as soldiers might. Thus; that said; even if your statements hold true (<em>which they do not</em>) it points to the fact that the most elite of “warrior” (not the lack of the plural) used TWF not the more average or normal ones.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">To note: Miyamoto Musashi was an extremely advanced warrior; the best of the best at a very young age. He was the master of TWF - excessively skilled, agile and gifted. </span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">“Musashi fought in the 3 major campaigns of his time and it is recorded that he fought over 60 duels in his lifetime – and lived.” </span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Thus it is clear that this guy was ELITE, VERY ELITE. Also note that it took him many years to create this style of his and perfect it. However after his death in 1645 not one of his pupils (some having been with him for many years) had the ability to fully understand and execute his style and, even with his two publications, could not do so after several years of study - Niten Ichi-Ryu died out after that. Thus this again points to the need fro a very special person to master this.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">DnD in the CW book misrepresents TWF with the Samurai and Ronin classes – they also use this guys book as a basis for that – historically inaccurate.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">With that – your support and theory of historical superiority of TWF is not validated – the opposite is true. Musashi was not a major player in the shaping of tactics for his nation at all; as said; the guy was actually a Ronin; an outcast and a mercenary. This is not to mention there are just a few years of prior Japanese warrior and Samurai fighting history prior to his birth that did not utilize his methods. </span></span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: white"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">The point is actually that you are planning on adding in a component that unbalances the game greatly. Giving AC bonuses to TWF Fighters eliminates the need of a shield and points to anyone who wants to survive needs to got he TWF route. All of the attributes, bonuses, feats, feats allowed to take, etc all balance out. With one rule to strip out half of the TWF feats as being redundant and make TWF the thing to be; period. Like saying a two weapon wielding character gets to add x5 his strength bonus to damage roles; why the heck would anyone want to use a shield? Even if they did for concept reasons after the first combat, when they get smacked around by a dozen two-handed weapon using bad guys, they’ll switch.</span></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SBMC, post: 2489446, member: 30040"] [b]Historical inaccuracies and assumptions[/b] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman][/font][/size][/color][color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman][/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]Won’t see it coming…what if the opponent is as skilled as you are? Would it then be so easy and decisive? You mentioned Kali and Jeet Kune Do as your specialties; Jeet Kune Do (for those of you who do not know this is Bruce Lee’s Style he created) was designed in an era without armor and Kali is from a culture with virtually no armor.[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]There is a distinctive difference in how cultures make war dependant upon the tools at hand. Without armor speed and agility are what is important. A single cut can end a combat quickly; and that cut need not have a great deal of pressure applied when made. However when one needs speed and agility they also need space to move; mass combat takes on a brand new look; and without it…things get messy for everyone.[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]Most advanced cultures (not all) (Japan, China, Europe) all used armor for obvious reasons – and shields. [/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]Thus: TWF takes EXCEPTIONAL speed and agility to execute effectively – hence the very high DEX scores required in the DnD rules. Read on for more evidence…[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman][/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]And what if the other guy knows what he’s doing to?[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]Miyamoto Musashi's “Ichi Ryu Ni” style is what you are referring to; written in the 1600’s. It went through several name changes before his death in 1645. There is a whole lot of world history prior to 1645; a whole lot. Many also think that this guy laid some sort of major foundation for combat in Japan – he did not. His works were unique and survived the times is all. [/font][/size][/color][color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]As a matter of fact this man was a Ronin![/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]This is where historical fact differs greatly from your theories as well as modern martial arts teachings in America (which are ripe with inaccuracies). This writing and another by the same author is frequently used as a backup for insinuating that TWF is superior to shield use and two-handed weapons - it is not. That is proven directly and by comparison of masters time and time again in history; old and new. Go to the ARMA website and start reading some essays on swordsmanship and tactics – you will find the opposite of what you have just said is true. A skilled one weapon user has greater control over his weapon as well as a reach, balance and power advantage - you still assume the opponent is weaker than you. [/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]-----------------------------------------------------------[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]I chose to find some places that everyone could access to validate what I am saying:[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]Related Links:[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][url="http://www.samurai.com/5rings/"][color=white][font=Times New Roman][size=3]http://www.samurai.com/5rings/[/size][/font][/color][/url][/color] [color=white][url="http://www.nitenichi.com/"][color=white][font=Times New Roman][size=3]http://www.nitenichi.com/[/size][/font][/color][/url][/color] [color=white][url="http://www.geocities.com/georgemccall/ken.html"][color=white][font=Times New Roman][size=3]http://www.geocities.com/georgemccall/ken.html[/size][/font][/color][/url][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]-----------------------------------------------------------[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]As a backup for the use of [i]some[/i] warriors in Japan wearing two swords:[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][url="http://www.samurai.com/5rings/ground/27.html"][color=white][font=Times New Roman][size=3]http://www.samurai.com/5rings/ground/27.html[/size][/font][/color][/url][/color] [b][color=white][font=Times New Roman]Two swords[/font][/color][/b] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]The samurai wore two swords thrust thru the belt with the cutting edges upward on the left side. The shorter, or companion, sword was carried at all times, and the longer sword was only worn out of doors. From time to time there were rules governing the style and length of swords. Samurai carried two swords but other classes were allowed only one sword for protection against brigands on the roads between towns (see Translator's Introduction). The samurai kept their short swords at their bedsides, and there were racks for long swords inside the vestibule of every samurai home.[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]-----------------------------------------------------------[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]Anyone feel free to look this up elsewhere; you will find that the samurai were the only ones to wear two swords and that they actually DID NOT use TWF as a practice. Why? Because in actual practice so few can effectively do it not to mention that the use of armor requires a greater use of force in blows amongst other things (some noted elsewhere above).[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]Now: the samurai were not exactly your average fighter; they were the elite of the elite like the knights of Europe. They knew how to do battle as an art not a trade as soldiers might. Thus; that said; even if your statements hold true ([i]which they do not[/i]) it points to the fact that the most elite of “warrior” (not the lack of the plural) used TWF not the more average or normal ones.[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]To note: Miyamoto Musashi was an extremely advanced warrior; the best of the best at a very young age. He was the master of TWF - excessively skilled, agile and gifted. [/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]“Musashi fought in the 3 major campaigns of his time and it is recorded that he fought over 60 duels in his lifetime – and lived.” [/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]Thus it is clear that this guy was ELITE, VERY ELITE. Also note that it took him many years to create this style of his and perfect it. However after his death in 1645 not one of his pupils (some having been with him for many years) had the ability to fully understand and execute his style and, even with his two publications, could not do so after several years of study - Niten Ichi-Ryu died out after that. Thus this again points to the need fro a very special person to master this.[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]DnD in the CW book misrepresents TWF with the Samurai and Ronin classes – they also use this guys book as a basis for that – historically inaccurate.[/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]With that – your support and theory of historical superiority of TWF is not validated – the opposite is true. Musashi was not a major player in the shaping of tactics for his nation at all; as said; the guy was actually a Ronin; an outcast and a mercenary. This is not to mention there are just a few years of prior Japanese warrior and Samurai fighting history prior to his birth that did not utilize his methods. [/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman][/font][/size][/color] [color=white][size=3][font=Times New Roman]The point is actually that you are planning on adding in a component that unbalances the game greatly. Giving AC bonuses to TWF Fighters eliminates the need of a shield and points to anyone who wants to survive needs to got he TWF route. All of the attributes, bonuses, feats, feats allowed to take, etc all balance out. With one rule to strip out half of the TWF feats as being redundant and make TWF the thing to be; period. Like saying a two weapon wielding character gets to add x5 his strength bonus to damage roles; why the heck would anyone want to use a shield? Even if they did for concept reasons after the first combat, when they get smacked around by a dozen two-handed weapon using bad guys, they’ll switch.[/font][/size][/color] [/QUOTE]
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