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<blockquote data-quote="Irda Ranger" data-source="post: 3742902" data-attributes="member: 1003">What happened to the Angels who didn't rise up? Did they flee? Did they fight to the death? Was there a great purge, a war among brothers? Are they trapped in the Nine Hells too?Nice.That's a shame, and it doesn't logically follow either.1. As well covered, the Succubus and the Erinyes do NOT cover the the same ground - unless you mean the &quot;attractive evil female humanoid with wings&quot; ground, which is a pretty shallow reading of both.2. Just because all Devils are humanoids, it does not follow that all Demons are non-humanoids.&nbsp; Personally I can't see any devils who want to look like an 8-year old girl with a cute dolly, but I bet there are some demons who would go that route ...Am I the only one who caught &quot;demonic/yugoloth&quot;??&nbsp; I think &quot;weird, awful things made of nightmares&quot; category of creature has been rolled up into one category.&nbsp; Some of them may be more &quot;evil&quot; than others, but I think &quot;chaos&quot; is the defining theme that will link them all together.&nbsp; This is probably good in some respects, since Chthulu and his ilk aren't easily categorized on the whole &quot;good vs. evil&quot; thing (they're really just alien), but it probably makes sense to say he's some kind of &quot;Elder Demon/yugoloth.&quot;All in all, this is the most &quot;mixed bag&quot; report on 4e I've seen, IMO.&nbsp; I like that the distinction between Demons and Devils is being cleaned up.&nbsp; It was never clear to me (not being a Planescape guy, and not having bought a whole bunch of supplements on the matter).&nbsp; I'm glad there's more to distinguish them now than just &quot;lawful&quot; vs. &quot;chaotic&quot;, as that was a bit bland.&nbsp; OTOH, I'm not wild about the change to the Erinyes/Succubus, or what it says about the judgment of the &quot;planar creatures&quot; developers.&nbsp; It makes me worried about what other changes / cuts they have in store.I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, but I think the planar arhetypes that need the most work are the &quot;epitome of law&quot; types.&nbsp; Neither the Modrons nor the ant-men ever really did anything for me.&nbsp; This probably won't fly, but I think the Lawful planars should be crystalline intelligences that want to slow grow and grow until they have imposed a beautiful, unchanging crystal matrix upon the entire multiverse.&nbsp; Once everything is absorbed into the matrix (not, &quot;the Matrix&quot;), all will be harmonics and light.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Irda Ranger, post: 3742902, member: 1003"] What happened to the Angels who didn't rise up? Did they flee? Did they fight to the death? Was there a great purge, a war among brothers? Are they trapped in the Nine Hells too? Nice. That's a shame, and it doesn't logically follow either. 1. As well covered, the Succubus and the Erinyes do NOT cover the the same ground - unless you mean the "attractive evil female humanoid with wings" ground, which is a pretty shallow reading of both. 2. Just because all Devils are humanoids, it does not follow that all Demons are non-humanoids. Personally I can't see any devils who want to look like an 8-year old girl with a cute dolly, but I bet there are some demons who would go that route ... Am I the only one who caught "demonic/yugoloth"?? I think "weird, awful things made of nightmares" category of creature has been rolled up into one category. Some of them may be more "evil" than others, but I think "chaos" is the defining theme that will link them all together. This is probably good in some respects, since Chthulu and his ilk aren't easily categorized on the whole "good vs. evil" thing (they're really just alien), but it probably makes sense to say he's some kind of "Elder Demon/yugoloth." All in all, this is the most "mixed bag" report on 4e I've seen, IMO. I like that the distinction between Demons and Devils is being cleaned up. It was never clear to me (not being a Planescape guy, and not having bought a whole bunch of supplements on the matter). I'm glad there's more to distinguish them now than just "lawful" vs. "chaotic", as that was a bit bland. OTOH, I'm not wild about the change to the Erinyes/Succubus, or what it says about the judgment of the "planar creatures" developers. It makes me worried about what other changes / cuts they have in store. I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, but I think the planar arhetypes that need the most work are the "epitome of law" types. Neither the Modrons nor the ant-men ever really did anything for me. This probably won't fly, but I think the Lawful planars should be crystalline intelligences that want to slow grow and grow until they have imposed a beautiful, unchanging crystal matrix upon the entire multiverse. Once everything is absorbed into the matrix (not, "the Matrix"), all will be harmonics and light. [/QUOTE]

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