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Changes to Devils and Demons
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<blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 3747913" data-attributes="member: 22424"><p>Agreed. But if one group of people prefer one solution over the other, and a second group don't care, then the solution to go with is the one preferred by the first group, even if they are by far a minority.</p><p></p><p>It is true, however, that there is a third group here - those who prefer the new arrangement. Whether they are numerous enough, and whether they care enough, to justify casting aside the existing canon is an open question.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That the difference between monsters is in the arrangement of those powers, and in how they are used. If you want Demon encounters to feel different from Devil encounters, you need more than "humanoid and used weapons" vs. not. It's also not enough to simply vary the energy resistances.</p><p></p><p>A far better idea is to set up your Devils as having abilities to work closely together (Improved Flank, or whatever), while giving Demons abilities that better fit the 'undisciplined horde' motif.</p><p></p><p>Alternatively, as I discussed in an earlier post in this thread, assign the Devil the role of mastermind, and the Demon that of brute. Advise DMs that the best use for a Devil is as a more powerful lone creature, while the Demon fits better in a horde of weaker creatures.</p><p></p><p>And so, the balanced encounter for a 20th level party might be a lone CR22 Devil, or a CR18 Demon and half a dozen of his CR14 minions.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, but when the DM says, "You see this", and plunks down the miniature of the Glabrezu, most players will be able to narrow it to Evil Outsider pretty quickly. Once you're there, getting to Demon or Devil will now be a matter of looking at the shape.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Alternatively, those DMs should be describing the activities of the Demon in a manner consistent with their alignment (or other stated behaviour, if we're insistent on de-emphasising alignment even for creatures for which it makes sense not to do so), and as being distinctly different from the activites of Devils. Players should be paying attention to the previous encounters that they have had with creatures of these types, and therefore be drawing the conclusion based on what they have previously experienced.</p><p></p><p>Rather than saying, "oh, it's got weapons - break out the lightning bolts."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="delericho, post: 3747913, member: 22424"] Agreed. But if one group of people prefer one solution over the other, and a second group don't care, then the solution to go with is the one preferred by the first group, even if they are by far a minority. It is true, however, that there is a third group here - those who prefer the new arrangement. Whether they are numerous enough, and whether they care enough, to justify casting aside the existing canon is an open question. That the difference between monsters is in the arrangement of those powers, and in how they are used. If you want Demon encounters to feel different from Devil encounters, you need more than "humanoid and used weapons" vs. not. It's also not enough to simply vary the energy resistances. A far better idea is to set up your Devils as having abilities to work closely together (Improved Flank, or whatever), while giving Demons abilities that better fit the 'undisciplined horde' motif. Alternatively, as I discussed in an earlier post in this thread, assign the Devil the role of mastermind, and the Demon that of brute. Advise DMs that the best use for a Devil is as a more powerful lone creature, while the Demon fits better in a horde of weaker creatures. And so, the balanced encounter for a 20th level party might be a lone CR22 Devil, or a CR18 Demon and half a dozen of his CR14 minions. No, but when the DM says, "You see this", and plunks down the miniature of the Glabrezu, most players will be able to narrow it to Evil Outsider pretty quickly. Once you're there, getting to Demon or Devil will now be a matter of looking at the shape. Alternatively, those DMs should be describing the activities of the Demon in a manner consistent with their alignment (or other stated behaviour, if we're insistent on de-emphasising alignment even for creatures for which it makes sense not to do so), and as being distinctly different from the activites of Devils. Players should be paying attention to the previous encounters that they have had with creatures of these types, and therefore be drawing the conclusion based on what they have previously experienced. Rather than saying, "oh, it's got weapons - break out the lightning bolts." [/QUOTE]
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