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Changes to Divine Casters for a Dark Ages Game
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<blockquote data-quote="Thia Halmades" data-source="post: 2626186" data-attributes="member: 35863"><p>Without hesitation: your ideas utterly break the game.  If you want to limit Clerical magic, there are new core classes in Complete Divine that have the same effect.  Clerics are powerful at higher levels, but they're also very well balanced.  As Nyaricus pointed out, and I agree with him completely, we have four fairly-well balanced classes.  Stripping a car of its engine, then force-fitting that engine into another car gives you a more powerful car that would never, ever be street legal, nor would it have any identity.  It would just be an ugly mess that made a lot of noise.</p><p></p><p>The rules are there so that you don't have insane balance issues; like the other two folks who posted, I don't always agree with RAW, but it's far better to use RAW and have a consistent approach than to attempt to reinvent the wheel.  You'll just frustrate yourself and your players as you attempt to continually fix the bits you broke.  So.  Here are some simpler ideas that can help get you where you're going.</p><p></p><p>Druid Animal Companions: Don't allow Druids.  I don't.  They were too powerful for my game and I'm not a fan of animal NPCs.  They also lacked the flavor I was looking for.  I run a sublime reality; these guys have to have a "save the world" quest in order to leave a forest, and my party is composed of soldiers.  Didn't fit, I chucked 'em.</p><p></p><p>Clerics: They aren't overpowered, they're spell casters in armor who have to survive long enough to deliver heal spells.  I can't even begin to list the ways that giving wizards Divine magic makes wizards absurdly unbalanced.  Don't go here.  You can limit which domains are available, or use the low-magic rules from either the DMG or Eberron to tweak Divine magic, but knocking the Cleric off the list doesn't work in D&D.</p><p></p><p>Wizards: Altamont is absolutely correct.  Wizards are considered the most powerful class at 20th, before magic items are added.  And Wish isn't even their best spell, just a great example.  Now you want to give them Wish AND Miracle AND Heal AND Fireball AND Cloudkill?  I suggest avoiding making any adjustments to any core class unless you've gone through the four <em>Complete</em> books and flipped through those classes and their abilities.</p><p></p><p>Warlock: This makes sense, except I think the Warlock is too powerful.  By all means, removing a class (Sorceror) and replacing it with another class (Warlock) is far from unheard of.  However, I submit that you should read the Warlock rules very closely, as they can (literally) build anything with a good UMD check.  Wand of Heal?  No problem.  Go, go gadget UMD!  Second, remember that the Warlock's Eldritch Blast is based on a heavily modified Magic Missile, which is untyped damage.  The structure of the Warlock allows them to change the type of their blast later on, if I'm not mistaken.  This is their versatility option in lieu of having Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Cone of Cold, and other element typed spells, they can manipulate the energy of their Eldritch Blasts.  If you limit them to a type (say, Lightning, which is the only one that wouldn't completely screw them) then the moment they encounter something which is Electric resistant, they're done.  If you make it Fire, again, you're forcing them into a very small niche which can be easily defended against.</p><p></p><p>Consider this: All Warlocks are now Fire aligned.  We assume that the World At Large knows what a Warlock.  We assume they've dealt with Fire damage, and obviously they live in a world of magic.  It would take ONE INCIDENT to convince everyone to invest in Amulets of Fire Resistance.  If you're concerned about balance, forcing Warlocks into that is a poor idea.</p><p></p><p>If you're concerned about FLAVOR, then I would suggest channeling which Domains you give Clerics (if any), or you can opt to really nerf them and remove their Heal on the Fly ability.  None of that would work for me, because I'm a big proponent of Clerics and what they do, but it sounds like that's the sort of thing you're looking for, without you breaking your game before it begins.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Thia Halmades, post: 2626186, member: 35863"] Without hesitation: your ideas utterly break the game. If you want to limit Clerical magic, there are new core classes in Complete Divine that have the same effect. Clerics are powerful at higher levels, but they're also very well balanced. As Nyaricus pointed out, and I agree with him completely, we have four fairly-well balanced classes. Stripping a car of its engine, then force-fitting that engine into another car gives you a more powerful car that would never, ever be street legal, nor would it have any identity. It would just be an ugly mess that made a lot of noise. The rules are there so that you don't have insane balance issues; like the other two folks who posted, I don't always agree with RAW, but it's far better to use RAW and have a consistent approach than to attempt to reinvent the wheel. You'll just frustrate yourself and your players as you attempt to continually fix the bits you broke. So. Here are some simpler ideas that can help get you where you're going. Druid Animal Companions: Don't allow Druids. I don't. They were too powerful for my game and I'm not a fan of animal NPCs. They also lacked the flavor I was looking for. I run a sublime reality; these guys have to have a "save the world" quest in order to leave a forest, and my party is composed of soldiers. Didn't fit, I chucked 'em. Clerics: They aren't overpowered, they're spell casters in armor who have to survive long enough to deliver heal spells. I can't even begin to list the ways that giving wizards Divine magic makes wizards absurdly unbalanced. Don't go here. You can limit which domains are available, or use the low-magic rules from either the DMG or Eberron to tweak Divine magic, but knocking the Cleric off the list doesn't work in D&D. Wizards: Altamont is absolutely correct. Wizards are considered the most powerful class at 20th, before magic items are added. And Wish isn't even their best spell, just a great example. Now you want to give them Wish AND Miracle AND Heal AND Fireball AND Cloudkill? I suggest avoiding making any adjustments to any core class unless you've gone through the four [I]Complete[/I] books and flipped through those classes and their abilities. Warlock: This makes sense, except I think the Warlock is too powerful. By all means, removing a class (Sorceror) and replacing it with another class (Warlock) is far from unheard of. However, I submit that you should read the Warlock rules very closely, as they can (literally) build anything with a good UMD check. Wand of Heal? No problem. Go, go gadget UMD! Second, remember that the Warlock's Eldritch Blast is based on a heavily modified Magic Missile, which is untyped damage. The structure of the Warlock allows them to change the type of their blast later on, if I'm not mistaken. This is their versatility option in lieu of having Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Cone of Cold, and other element typed spells, they can manipulate the energy of their Eldritch Blasts. If you limit them to a type (say, Lightning, which is the only one that wouldn't completely screw them) then the moment they encounter something which is Electric resistant, they're done. If you make it Fire, again, you're forcing them into a very small niche which can be easily defended against. Consider this: All Warlocks are now Fire aligned. We assume that the World At Large knows what a Warlock. We assume they've dealt with Fire damage, and obviously they live in a world of magic. It would take ONE INCIDENT to convince everyone to invest in Amulets of Fire Resistance. If you're concerned about balance, forcing Warlocks into that is a poor idea. If you're concerned about FLAVOR, then I would suggest channeling which Domains you give Clerics (if any), or you can opt to really nerf them and remove their Heal on the Fly ability. None of that would work for me, because I'm a big proponent of Clerics and what they do, but it sounds like that's the sort of thing you're looking for, without you breaking your game before it begins. [/QUOTE]
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