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<blockquote data-quote="Matrixryu" data-source="post: 5010084" data-attributes="member: 84553">Those work pretty well too.&nbsp; Though, aren't the blackguard abilities supposed to replace preexisting Paladin abilities (like he has paladin powers, then loses them)?&nbsp; I'm not quite sure how that would work with this system.I've been experimenting with this a bit, but there are two things that I haven't been able to figure out with it:1.&nbsp; What do you do when the prestige class's saving throws are different from the class that you're modifying?&nbsp; Should you give a bonus/penalty to certain saves, or just ignore it?2. Should there be a specific level that the new abilities start getting tacked onto?EDIT:---Alright, here's something I put together.&nbsp; One of my players wanted his rogue to become an Umbral Disciple (from Magic of Incarnum), so that's why I messed around with this.&nbsp; Basically, once he chooses the 'combination class', he gains a few abilities and loses trap sense.&nbsp; Then, whenever he gains a level, he can choose to swap out one of his old rogue abilities for one of the Umbral Disciple ones he has the prereqs for.Btw, my player is using a pathfinder rogue, a rogue talent is simmilar to a 3.5 rogue special ability, except they gain them every even level Starting at level 2.&nbsp; In normal 3.5, you might want to have something else they could sacrifice.&nbsp; Also, you would need to add 3 to the skill requirements and change the names to get the 3.5 equivilent.Yea....this only works properly when the classes you're merging together have a lot of simmilarities.&nbsp; The umbral disciple gains 3d6 sneak attack as he levels up, so that means there aren't as many abilities for the rogue to swap in.I'll try and come up with something closer that uses 3.5 rules and standard classes for people who don't have all the books that I have, lol.&nbsp;&nbsp; UMBRAL ROGUE&nbsp; Rogue/Umbral Disciple combination class&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Requirements&nbsp; To qualify to become an Umbral Rogue, a character must fulfill the following criteria.&nbsp; Skills: Perception 5 ranks, Spellcraft 2 ranks, Stealth 5 ranks, Knowledge (arcane) 2 ranks&nbsp; Essentia Pool: 1.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Combination class options:&nbsp; When the player gains the Umbral Rogue combination class, he can choose to substitute a rogue ability that he is gaining from a level for any of the following abilities.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Rogue Talent: Step of Shadow, requires lvl 6&nbsp; Sneak Attack: Embrace of Shadow, requires lvl 8&nbsp; Rogue Talent: Sight of the Eyeless, requires level 11&nbsp; Rogue Talent: Soulchilling Strike, requires lvl 14&nbsp; Sneak Attack: Kiss of Shadows, requires lvl 15&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Ability Gained: Essentia Pool, character gains Essentia equal to (rogue lvl-4)/2 rounded down.&nbsp; Ability Gained: Umbral Willpower, character gains a wisdom save bonus equal to his rogue level divided by 5, rounded down.&nbsp; &nbsp; Ability Lost: Trap Sense.&nbsp; The rogue’s shifted focus causes him to lose his ability to dodge traps as effectively.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Matrixryu, post: 5010084, member: 84553"] Those work pretty well too. Though, aren't the blackguard abilities supposed to replace preexisting Paladin abilities (like he has paladin powers, then loses them)? I'm not quite sure how that would work with this system. I've been experimenting with this a bit, but there are two things that I haven't been able to figure out with it: 1. What do you do when the prestige class's saving throws are different from the class that you're modifying? Should you give a bonus/penalty to certain saves, or just ignore it? 2. Should there be a specific level that the new abilities start getting tacked onto? EDIT:--- Alright, here's something I put together. One of my players wanted his rogue to become an Umbral Disciple (from Magic of Incarnum), so that's why I messed around with this. Basically, once he chooses the 'combination class', he gains a few abilities and loses trap sense. Then, whenever he gains a level, he can choose to swap out one of his old rogue abilities for one of the Umbral Disciple ones he has the prereqs for. Btw, my player is using a pathfinder rogue, a rogue talent is simmilar to a 3.5 rogue special ability, except they gain them every even level Starting at level 2. In normal 3.5, you might want to have something else they could sacrifice. Also, you would need to add 3 to the skill requirements and change the names to get the 3.5 equivilent. Yea....this only works properly when the classes you're merging together have a lot of simmilarities. The umbral disciple gains 3d6 sneak attack as he levels up, so that means there aren't as many abilities for the rogue to swap in. I'll try and come up with something closer that uses 3.5 rules and standard classes for people who don't have all the books that I have, lol. [B]UMBRAL ROGUE[/B] Rogue/Umbral Disciple combination class [B]Requirements[/B] To qualify to become an Umbral Rogue, a character must fulfill the following criteria. [B]Skills: [/B]Perception 5 ranks, Spellcraft 2 ranks, Stealth 5 ranks, Knowledge (arcane) 2 ranks [B]Essentia Pool: [/B]1. [B]Combination class options:[/B] When the player gains the Umbral Rogue combination class, he can choose to substitute a rogue ability that he is gaining from a level for any of the following abilities. Rogue Talent: Step of Shadow, requires lvl 6 Sneak Attack: Embrace of Shadow, requires lvl 8 Rogue Talent: Sight of the Eyeless, requires level 11 Rogue Talent: Soulchilling Strike, requires lvl 14 Sneak Attack: Kiss of Shadows, requires lvl 15 Ability Gained: Essentia Pool, character gains Essentia equal to (rogue lvl-4)/2 rounded down. Ability Gained: Umbral Willpower, character gains a wisdom save bonus equal to his rogue level divided by 5, rounded down. Ability Lost: Trap Sense. The rogue’s shifted focus causes him to lose his ability to dodge traps as effectively. [/QUOTE]

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