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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 7601179" data-attributes="member: 6987520">Since you need more info here you go:Increasing the proficiency bonus range to +9 maximum creates a greater gap between lower and higher level characters. Our table finds a change from +2 to +6 in RAW too little to really represent the improvements 20 levels of experience could bring. At any rate, the difference between RAW +6 and the higher +9 is typically nothing in the first tier, a +1 for most of the second tier, a +2 for much of the third tier, and +2 or +3 for the highest levels. I would like it to be greater, but beyond +9 and the increases it creates, there is too much imbalance with the other aspects of the game (monster stats, DCs, etc.). It would require way too much work to make those changes, and the +9 progression works well enough while maintaining the confines of Bounded Accuracy.Expertise, especially at higher levels, even with normal RAW proficiency bonuses, can strain Bounded Accuracy. Even at lower levels, using double the proficiency bonus can result in totals high enough tat difficult tasks become routine. I've seen our DM's frustration when the Rogue with expertise in Stealth typically rolls so high that creatures literally have no chance to notice him. An answer to this is to change it to advantage. This allows a more likely higher result, but nothing beyond the bounds of 20 + the skill check modifier, while restraining the maximum possible result. Allowing a natural 20 to automatically succeed regardless of the DC also reflects an edge available to Rogues and Bards not normally available to other classes without expertise.Why should only Rogues and Bards (I could understand bards I suppose) be the only classes normally with access to expertise (other than archetype exceptions)? The DM's answer to this was the Double-Skill rule. Sure, you can get twice your proficiency bonus, but at the cost of losing another skill. Personally, IMO it simply creates the same problem RAW expertise does and he pretty much added it on the fly because another player (the other rogue) didn't want to lose double proficiency bonus in stealth, perception, investigation, and thieves' tools. The player opted to switch a feat to Skilled, and also ditched Deception, for the extra skill cost for those four skills to make them all Double-Skills.Unfortunately, coupled with Expertise (which the rogue obviously stills gets), it is even worse because now those expertise skills are also Double-skills! So not only does he get twice the proficiency bonus, he is also getting advantage. YIKES! :OI've edited the OP to pose specific questions/concerns.</blockquote>

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