Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Changing Expertise and Ability Check Resolution - House Rule
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="jodyjohnson" data-source="post: 7244839" data-attributes="member: 5590"><p>Problems: </p><p>1. Perceived need to proliferate Expertise (doubled proficiency bonus) to sub-classes beyond Bard and Rogue and the expectation that Expertise is required to actually excel at a skill.</p><p>2. Skill check number porn. Especially stealth and perception; and other opposed checks.</p><p>3. Lack of love for balanced stats. Stats tend to be high (16+) or low (10 or less).</p><p>4. Everybody rolls wonkiness.</p><p></p><p>Ability check modifying house rule suggestions:</p><p>1. Expertise replaces the stat part of the Stat bonus plus Proficiency of Ability check resolution. So it makes up for a weak stat or at the highest tier allows a character to exceed the stat limitation (default of +5). It allows a character to be good at something they might not have a natural aptitude for (the high stat). So +4 to +12 in a specific skill. Expertise at level 1 or 2 is a +4 bonus. A high stat and proficiency could be higher.</p><p>2. A good stat or proficiency lowers the DC of a static check by 5 (takes inspiration from the Lore check in the playtest and +3 bonus of 3.x, +5 bonus of 4e). For point buy or default array I'll peg 'good' at 14+ (+2 bonus). For high rolled stats I might push it up to 15 or 16.</p><p>3. Opposed checks are not effected. (Not using the effective +5 bonus. This results in an advantage rather than an overwhelming advantage).</p><p>4. <em>Pass without Trace</em>. The +10 bonus to stealth replaces the normal bonus. Stacking the +10 with the normal bonus results in a higher bonus than I prefer. I believe replacing the complete bonus gives the world better reference for the skill level of a high stealth character - they effectively can approximate <em>Pass without trace</em> at will.</p><p></p><p>Not really a house rule but I use the Middle path in the Role of the Dice DMG section - my criteria for Auto-pass or auto-fail is based on needing a 18+ for success or a 3 or lower for failure. Outside a 20-80% uncertainty window I'd prefer to not have player's roll. This is a result worse than a 1 in 6 chance so common in 1e.</p><p></p><p>Goals:</p><p>1. Let martial strength types excel at grappling without needing to dip Rogue/Bard.</p><p>2. Bump up the mental stats with their large number of associated skills. Bring up the success rates of the Lore abilities and other non-opposed checks.</p><p>3. Make the choice of which abilities to apply Expertise to more interesting (IMO). Making your best skill better is not a very interesting choice personally. (Static checks like Picking locks, finding traps, tool proficiency, etc. get 'free' Expertise+ early on).</p><p>4. Removing the stacking on PwoT. "I get a 42 on my stealth check" distorts the skill system and the "DM decides" hiding resolution.</p><p>5. A natural mechanical disincentive to 'me too'ism on skill checks a character has no natural ability in.</p><p></p><p>My preference would be the think of the skill bonuses more on a scale of 1-10 rather than 2-17. I'd also cap stats at 18 but that is more related to making combat more challenging at the higher tiers and encouraging more feat taking.</p><p></p><p>Thoughts, issues, or unforeseen complications?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jodyjohnson, post: 7244839, member: 5590"] Problems: 1. Perceived need to proliferate Expertise (doubled proficiency bonus) to sub-classes beyond Bard and Rogue and the expectation that Expertise is required to actually excel at a skill. 2. Skill check number porn. Especially stealth and perception; and other opposed checks. 3. Lack of love for balanced stats. Stats tend to be high (16+) or low (10 or less). 4. Everybody rolls wonkiness. Ability check modifying house rule suggestions: 1. Expertise replaces the stat part of the Stat bonus plus Proficiency of Ability check resolution. So it makes up for a weak stat or at the highest tier allows a character to exceed the stat limitation (default of +5). It allows a character to be good at something they might not have a natural aptitude for (the high stat). So +4 to +12 in a specific skill. Expertise at level 1 or 2 is a +4 bonus. A high stat and proficiency could be higher. 2. A good stat or proficiency lowers the DC of a static check by 5 (takes inspiration from the Lore check in the playtest and +3 bonus of 3.x, +5 bonus of 4e). For point buy or default array I'll peg 'good' at 14+ (+2 bonus). For high rolled stats I might push it up to 15 or 16. 3. Opposed checks are not effected. (Not using the effective +5 bonus. This results in an advantage rather than an overwhelming advantage). 4. [i]Pass without Trace[/i]. The +10 bonus to stealth replaces the normal bonus. Stacking the +10 with the normal bonus results in a higher bonus than I prefer. I believe replacing the complete bonus gives the world better reference for the skill level of a high stealth character - they effectively can approximate [i]Pass without trace[/i] at will. Not really a house rule but I use the Middle path in the Role of the Dice DMG section - my criteria for Auto-pass or auto-fail is based on needing a 18+ for success or a 3 or lower for failure. Outside a 20-80% uncertainty window I'd prefer to not have player's roll. This is a result worse than a 1 in 6 chance so common in 1e. Goals: 1. Let martial strength types excel at grappling without needing to dip Rogue/Bard. 2. Bump up the mental stats with their large number of associated skills. Bring up the success rates of the Lore abilities and other non-opposed checks. 3. Make the choice of which abilities to apply Expertise to more interesting (IMO). Making your best skill better is not a very interesting choice personally. (Static checks like Picking locks, finding traps, tool proficiency, etc. get 'free' Expertise+ early on). 4. Removing the stacking on PwoT. "I get a 42 on my stealth check" distorts the skill system and the "DM decides" hiding resolution. 5. A natural mechanical disincentive to 'me too'ism on skill checks a character has no natural ability in. My preference would be the think of the skill bonuses more on a scale of 1-10 rather than 2-17. I'd also cap stats at 18 but that is more related to making combat more challenging at the higher tiers and encouraging more feat taking. Thoughts, issues, or unforeseen complications? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Changing Expertise and Ability Check Resolution - House Rule
Top