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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Changing Saving Throws and DC's
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<blockquote data-quote="Andre" data-source="post: 3087809" data-attributes="member: 25930"><p>True. I wasn't referring to the end result so much as the concept. I read somewhere the rule of thumb that if something should be easier for high-level characters, you make it a save or skill check. If the difficulty is the same for everyone, you make it a stat check. Your concept effectively says that gaining levels doesn't inherently make a creature any more resistant to magic.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's one effect of your system that I like. As you say, high-level spells already tend to have big effects. I may adopt that piece for my own group - though it may nerf spellcasters too much. I'll have to test it and see...</p><p></p><p>One concern I have with your system is that a spellcaster only has to boost one stat to get very high spell DC's. The target needs to boost three stats to have the same defense. In effect, all characters are going to be weak against one or two types of saves, and possibly all three. I would guess that spellcasters would get a significant power boost relative to the other classes with this sytem.</p><p></p><p>Save-boosting feats should be very popular, as will SR. Otherwise your average high-level character will constantly fall prey to low-level daze, charm person, command, glitterdust, etc. And casters will have more of these low-level spells than their high-level ones, so may be more willing to throw them around in every fight. I may be wrong, but I think playtesting will show that this system will suffer too much from save-or-disabled (die) effects. </p><p></p><p>Which leads me to my last concern: It doesn't feel heroic. Player characters are supposed to be able to shrug off stuff that would level a mob of common folks. You'll have high-level characters who can take more damage than a bull elephant, but will be brought down by a lowly daze spell. A system where heroes are regularly blowing saves doesn't sound like a lot of fun (but will have a lot of tension...for a while).</p><p></p><p>All IMHO - since I haven't tested it, take these comments for what they are - mildly educated guesses. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Andre, post: 3087809, member: 25930"] True. I wasn't referring to the end result so much as the concept. I read somewhere the rule of thumb that if something should be easier for high-level characters, you make it a save or skill check. If the difficulty is the same for everyone, you make it a stat check. Your concept effectively says that gaining levels doesn't inherently make a creature any more resistant to magic. That's one effect of your system that I like. As you say, high-level spells already tend to have big effects. I may adopt that piece for my own group - though it may nerf spellcasters too much. I'll have to test it and see... One concern I have with your system is that a spellcaster only has to boost one stat to get very high spell DC's. The target needs to boost three stats to have the same defense. In effect, all characters are going to be weak against one or two types of saves, and possibly all three. I would guess that spellcasters would get a significant power boost relative to the other classes with this sytem. Save-boosting feats should be very popular, as will SR. Otherwise your average high-level character will constantly fall prey to low-level daze, charm person, command, glitterdust, etc. And casters will have more of these low-level spells than their high-level ones, so may be more willing to throw them around in every fight. I may be wrong, but I think playtesting will show that this system will suffer too much from save-or-disabled (die) effects. Which leads me to my last concern: It doesn't feel heroic. Player characters are supposed to be able to shrug off stuff that would level a mob of common folks. You'll have high-level characters who can take more damage than a bull elephant, but will be brought down by a lowly daze spell. A system where heroes are regularly blowing saves doesn't sound like a lot of fun (but will have a lot of tension...for a while). All IMHO - since I haven't tested it, take these comments for what they are - mildly educated guesses. :) [/QUOTE]
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