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<blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 4508035" data-attributes="member: 994">Maybe I'm missing your point, PS, and if so I apologize but:It seems to me the Athletics bit about Catch Hold would be very relevant to all characters after they fail their save. Sneaky McRogue is going to have a much easier time after he's knocked over the cliff to catch hold of something and save himself from a messy landing. Joe Slow isn't; get a mop.Since the power/effect used to cause the push and whichever defense is targeted accounts for one's ability to avoid getting hit by the effect in the first place, and afterwards the Catch Hold rules can be used to help adjudicate the outcome, I guess I'm okay with a near 50/50 chance of actually getting knocked over the cliff.I'm imagining the carnival games where you shoot baseballs or something out of the air bazooka at bottles and whatnot trying to knock all of them over. You can usually hit them easily enough, usually even in a way that increases your odds quite a bit, but hitting them in just the right way to fall as you desire is largely left up to chance. That's what I see the save representing. &lt;shrug&gt;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DrSpunj, post: 4508035, member: 994"] Maybe I'm missing your point, PS, and if so I apologize but: It seems to me the Athletics bit about Catch Hold would be very relevant to all characters [i]after they fail their save[/i]. Sneaky McRogue is going to have a much easier time after he's knocked over the cliff to catch hold of something and save himself from a messy landing. Joe Slow isn't; get a mop. Since the power/effect used to cause the push and whichever defense is targeted accounts for one's ability to avoid getting hit by the effect in the first place, and afterwards the Catch Hold rules can be used to help adjudicate the outcome, I guess I'm okay with a near 50/50 chance of actually getting knocked over the cliff. I'm imagining the carnival games where you shoot baseballs or something out of the air bazooka at bottles and whatnot trying to knock all of them over. You can usually hit them easily enough, usually even in a way that increases your odds quite a bit, but hitting them in just the right way to fall as you desire is largely left up to chance. That's what I see the save representing. <shrug> [/QUOTE]

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