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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7034341" data-attributes="member: 6696971">That is one of, and the most recent, points of this thread.And yes, endgame battles and workday paving are indeed very much a different kettle of fish. That was what I was trying to convey in my prior two posts (where I looked at the Bladesingers level 20-30 build contributions). I looked at the Rogue and Druid/Warlord hybrids' 20-30 build contributions the other day. Truly amazingly powerful PCs (and not silly, incoherent fiction build optimized) on their own. The force multiplication (staying power, action economy gains, team synergy, control effects, mobility/ability to &quot;attack the Y axis&quot;, etc) of PC 20-30 build contributions is a large part of the signal here.Personally, I think&nbsp; [MENTION=6694190]Myrhdraak[/MENTION] 's aims might be better served just using the 1-20 game, introducing a small, scaling damage bump to all non-Minions at Bloodied and deploying less HP-intensive (but still just as threatening) Encounter Budgets. 4e is robust to that treatment. It is one of 4e's best dials.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7034341, member: 6696971"] That is one of, and the most recent, points of this thread. And yes, endgame battles and workday paving are indeed very much a different kettle of fish. That was what I was trying to convey in my prior two posts (where I looked at the Bladesingers level 20-30 build contributions). I looked at the Rogue and Druid/Warlord hybrids' 20-30 build contributions the other day. Truly amazingly powerful PCs (and not silly, incoherent fiction build optimized) on their own. The force multiplication (staying power, action economy gains, team synergy, control effects, mobility/ability to "attack the Y axis", etc) of PC 20-30 build contributions is a large part of the signal here. Personally, I think [MENTION=6694190]Myrhdraak[/MENTION] 's aims might be better served just using the 1-20 game, introducing a small, scaling damage bump to all non-Minions at Bloodied and deploying less HP-intensive (but still just as threatening) Encounter Budgets. 4e is robust to that treatment. It is one of 4e's best dials. [/QUOTE]

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