Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Changing the Combat Parameters of 4th Edition
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Myrhdraak" data-source="post: 7325798" data-attributes="member: 6694190"><p>Have not been much playing lately, but this weekend I finally got some chance to run a larger 4.5 Edition battle. I thought I would take the opportunity to check the outcome of this battle vs. my own 4.5 Edition simulations. The group consist of 6 characters, all 9th level. They faced a 10th level encounter. The encounter was built in two waves. The first wave was 3 goblins (level 1 skirmisher), 3 worgs (level 3 brute), 1 troll (level 9 brute), and 8 goblins (level 2 minion). The second wave was 5 orcs (level 6 brute), 1 orc (level 8 controller), and 1 drake (level 3 artillery). In 4th Edition this would be an EL 5.7 (1398 XP) first wave + an EL 6.9 (1750 XP) second wave for a total challenge of EL 10.2 (3148 XP). Under my 4.5 Edition rules it is EL 7.8 (4996 XP) + EL 6.6 (3770 XP) = EL 10.2 (8766 XP). Please note the difference in which Wave is considered the hardest in the two editions - the second wave in 4th and the first wave in 4.5.</p><p></p><p>Based on this I can set certain expectations on the battle based on the 4.5 Edition Encounter Building guidelines (page 12). Three of these encounters should be a full adventuring day, and by the end of the day the party should have Full HP and only 80% of their total Healing Surges left. The battle should on average take 4.7 rounds to resolve. So what was the real outcome?</p><p></p><p>This is how the party resources looked like after the battle – [remaining (original)]:</p><p>Druid – HP 60 (60), HS 10 (10), Daily 2 (3), Healing Word 0 (2)</p><p>Ranger – HP 57 (57), HS 7 (7), Daily 2 (3), Healing 1 (1)</p><p>Wizard – HP 54 (54), HS 8 (8), Daily 1 (3), Healing 0 (0)</p><p>Fighter – HP 35 (66), HS 11 (14), Daily 0 (3), Healing 1 (1)</p><p>Rogue – HP 58 (58), HS 8 (8), Daily 1 (3), Healing 0 (1)</p><p>Barbarian – HP 6 (64), HS 5 (10), Daily 2 (3), Healing 0 (1)</p><p></p><p>Total – HP in HS value 28 (36), HS 49 (57), Daily 8 (18), Healing 2 (4), Healing Word 0 (2)</p><p></p><p>If we look at what the Encounter Building guidelines would indicate, it would be:</p><p>=> HS: Used healing surges during the battle would be 57 * 0,8 / 3 = 15.2 HS per encounter</p><p>=> Daily: 18 / 3 = 6 per encounter</p><p>=> Healing: 2 Healing Words + 4/3=1.33 Healing used per encounter</p><p>=> Time: 4.7 Rounds</p><p></p><p>So what was the actual outcome in comparison: </p><p>=> HS: 8 HS lost (in lowered HP) + HS 8 lost = 16 HS lost of 93 HS. This is well in line with the expected 15.2 HS per encounter in the guidelines</p><p>=> Daily: 10 was used, which is 4 more than the anticipated 6</p><p>=> Healing: All Healing Word used and 2 Healing used, which was 0.66 more than the anticipated 1.33. </p><p>=> The battle was resolved in 6 rounds, a little more than the expected 4.7 rounds, but this might be due to the "2 Waves" setup with a lost round for transportation for melee combatants.</p><p></p><p><strong>Conclusion:</strong> At least for 9th level the Encounter Building and the XP system seems to be quite well tuned, and allows for good DM control when planning the encounters. The ability to be able to break up the adventuring day from 3 to up to 9 encounters is also a flexibility that helps when converting adventures or creating new ones.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Myrhdraak, post: 7325798, member: 6694190"] Have not been much playing lately, but this weekend I finally got some chance to run a larger 4.5 Edition battle. I thought I would take the opportunity to check the outcome of this battle vs. my own 4.5 Edition simulations. The group consist of 6 characters, all 9th level. They faced a 10th level encounter. The encounter was built in two waves. The first wave was 3 goblins (level 1 skirmisher), 3 worgs (level 3 brute), 1 troll (level 9 brute), and 8 goblins (level 2 minion). The second wave was 5 orcs (level 6 brute), 1 orc (level 8 controller), and 1 drake (level 3 artillery). In 4th Edition this would be an EL 5.7 (1398 XP) first wave + an EL 6.9 (1750 XP) second wave for a total challenge of EL 10.2 (3148 XP). Under my 4.5 Edition rules it is EL 7.8 (4996 XP) + EL 6.6 (3770 XP) = EL 10.2 (8766 XP). Please note the difference in which Wave is considered the hardest in the two editions - the second wave in 4th and the first wave in 4.5. Based on this I can set certain expectations on the battle based on the 4.5 Edition Encounter Building guidelines (page 12). Three of these encounters should be a full adventuring day, and by the end of the day the party should have Full HP and only 80% of their total Healing Surges left. The battle should on average take 4.7 rounds to resolve. So what was the real outcome? This is how the party resources looked like after the battle – [remaining (original)]: Druid – HP 60 (60), HS 10 (10), Daily 2 (3), Healing Word 0 (2) Ranger – HP 57 (57), HS 7 (7), Daily 2 (3), Healing 1 (1) Wizard – HP 54 (54), HS 8 (8), Daily 1 (3), Healing 0 (0) Fighter – HP 35 (66), HS 11 (14), Daily 0 (3), Healing 1 (1) Rogue – HP 58 (58), HS 8 (8), Daily 1 (3), Healing 0 (1) Barbarian – HP 6 (64), HS 5 (10), Daily 2 (3), Healing 0 (1) Total – HP in HS value 28 (36), HS 49 (57), Daily 8 (18), Healing 2 (4), Healing Word 0 (2) If we look at what the Encounter Building guidelines would indicate, it would be: => HS: Used healing surges during the battle would be 57 * 0,8 / 3 = 15.2 HS per encounter => Daily: 18 / 3 = 6 per encounter => Healing: 2 Healing Words + 4/3=1.33 Healing used per encounter => Time: 4.7 Rounds So what was the actual outcome in comparison: => HS: 8 HS lost (in lowered HP) + HS 8 lost = 16 HS lost of 93 HS. This is well in line with the expected 15.2 HS per encounter in the guidelines => Daily: 10 was used, which is 4 more than the anticipated 6 => Healing: All Healing Word used and 2 Healing used, which was 0.66 more than the anticipated 1.33. => The battle was resolved in 6 rounds, a little more than the expected 4.7 rounds, but this might be due to the "2 Waves" setup with a lost round for transportation for melee combatants. [B]Conclusion:[/B] At least for 9th level the Encounter Building and the XP system seems to be quite well tuned, and allows for good DM control when planning the encounters. The ability to be able to break up the adventuring day from 3 to up to 9 encounters is also a flexibility that helps when converting adventures or creating new ones. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Changing the Combat Parameters of 4th Edition
Top