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Changing the effects of "save or die" spells
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<blockquote data-quote="SteveC" data-source="post: 1926976" data-attributes="member: 9053"><p>Hi everyone!</p><p>Here's another rules boogle I have been dealing with: save or "die" effects.</p><p>When I write that, I mean effects that take a character completely out of the fight, and leave him open to being quickly killed by enemies: paralysis, sleep and so on. The problem is that normally one die roll is all that's necessary to completely remove a character or opponent from the game: it's an all or nothing affair. </p><p> </p><p>Many people don't see this as a problem, of course, but I've noticed that as you get to higher levels it seems like a character (or monster) has its life hinging more and more on one die roll, which is somewhat counter-intuitive to me. The Hold Person spell was rewritten in 3.5 to give a new save each round a character is affected by it, which to my mind is a good idea. Sadly, it's not consistently applied throughout the rules to other similar effects.</p><p> </p><p>What do I propose? Well, if a campaign uses action points, I'd propose that spending one would let a character continue to act for the rolled number of rounds before they would have to make a new save. At the very least I'd allow characters to take a feat that allowed them to spend action points this way.</p><p> </p><p>In a non action point campaign, it's a little more complicated. What I'm going to suggest is that a character of "heroic stature" can spend hit points to temporarily keep the effects at bay. My suggestion is that the character must spend Spell Level x Character Level in hit points per round. Where <strong>Spell Level</strong> is the level of the spell cast on them, and <strong>Character Level</strong> is the level of the character who is being attacked. For example, if a 5th level character had a "hold person" cast on them, they could spend 2 x 5 = 10 hit points each round to resist the effects if they failed their saving throw. I chose to make multiply the spell level by the character's level to keep the effect proportional as a character gains levels.</p><p> </p><p>Some questions to be answered: who can use this effect? I chose to say heroic statured characters could, but what does that mean? To me this would be any character with character levels, or any of the most powerful monsters such as dragons or outsiders.</p><p> </p><p>Second, is hit point damage the right way to model this kind of effect? I view it as using your life force to fight off the effects of a spell, at great cost.</p><p> </p><p>Third, is that damage enough damage to keep from completely nerfing "save or die effects?" What about Caster Level x Character Level for the damage?</p><p> </p><p>What does everyone think...is there a kernal of a good idea here? Have you seen any other similar rules systems for this kind of mechaninc?</p><p> </p><p>Let me know what you think, and have a merry christmas too!</p><p> </p><p>--Steve</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SteveC, post: 1926976, member: 9053"] Hi everyone! Here's another rules boogle I have been dealing with: save or "die" effects. When I write that, I mean effects that take a character completely out of the fight, and leave him open to being quickly killed by enemies: paralysis, sleep and so on. The problem is that normally one die roll is all that's necessary to completely remove a character or opponent from the game: it's an all or nothing affair. Many people don't see this as a problem, of course, but I've noticed that as you get to higher levels it seems like a character (or monster) has its life hinging more and more on one die roll, which is somewhat counter-intuitive to me. The Hold Person spell was rewritten in 3.5 to give a new save each round a character is affected by it, which to my mind is a good idea. Sadly, it's not consistently applied throughout the rules to other similar effects. What do I propose? Well, if a campaign uses action points, I'd propose that spending one would let a character continue to act for the rolled number of rounds before they would have to make a new save. At the very least I'd allow characters to take a feat that allowed them to spend action points this way. In a non action point campaign, it's a little more complicated. What I'm going to suggest is that a character of "heroic stature" can spend hit points to temporarily keep the effects at bay. My suggestion is that the character must spend Spell Level x Character Level in hit points per round. Where [b]Spell Level[/b] is the level of the spell cast on them, and [b]Character Level[/b] is the level of the character who is being attacked. For example, if a 5th level character had a "hold person" cast on them, they could spend 2 x 5 = 10 hit points each round to resist the effects if they failed their saving throw. I chose to make multiply the spell level by the character's level to keep the effect proportional as a character gains levels. Some questions to be answered: who can use this effect? I chose to say heroic statured characters could, but what does that mean? To me this would be any character with character levels, or any of the most powerful monsters such as dragons or outsiders. Second, is hit point damage the right way to model this kind of effect? I view it as using your life force to fight off the effects of a spell, at great cost. Third, is that damage enough damage to keep from completely nerfing "save or die effects?" What about Caster Level x Character Level for the damage? What does everyone think...is there a kernal of a good idea here? Have you seen any other similar rules systems for this kind of mechaninc? Let me know what you think, and have a merry christmas too! --Steve [/QUOTE]
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