Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Changing the high-level fighter
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Terraism" data-source="post: 2259191" data-attributes="member: 278"><p>(Yup. Another "fighter's are underpowered after about level eight" thread. I'm going to be working from that perspective for the rest of this post, by the way.)</p><p></p><p>I think the best-known issue with fighters is the fact that, while they get a large number of feats - they're the "feat masters," as it were - there just aren't quite enough feats out there (in the core books, anyway,) for them to keep using those bonus feats at higher levels. Sure, they have more to take, but after they've gotten the feat tree devoted to their preferred fighting style, then what? They take a tree that's not quite as relevant, but still useful. Then less relevant, then... anyway. Getting back to that "feat master" thing. As I see it, fighters are supposed to be the best at straight-up combat. Barbarians are better at tearing through things, frothing at the mouth and doing insane amounts of damage. Paladins have divine backup. Rangers are tricksy little fellows. Fighters, on the other hand... well, they have a lot of feats. More than everyone else. What if they were better at them, too?</p><p></p><p>I've been trying to figure out a way to increase the power of fighters at higher-levels, while keeping it about the same early on, where they're just fine. And I keep coming back to the "feat master" idea. How crazy would something like this be?</p><p></p><p><strong>Feat Mastery (Ex):</strong> Numerical effects and bonuses from feats on the list of fighter bonus feats are increased by +1 at 8th level, +2 at 12th level, +3 at 16th level, and +4 at 20th level.</p><p></p><p><em>Example 1:</em></p><p> <em>- Normal: </em>Joe is a 9th level fighter with a 14 Intelligence. He has has Combat Expertise, and sacrifices two points from his attack bonus to gain a +2 bonus to his AC until his next action.</p><p><em> - Changed: </em>Because he has Feat Mastery (+1), he gains a +3 bonus to his AC.</p><p></p><p><em>Example 2:</em></p><p> <em>- Normal: </em>Joe is a 12th level fighter with Improved Disarm, giving him a +4 bonus to Disarm attempts.</p><p> <em> - Changed: </em>Because he has Feat Mastery (+2), he gains a <em>+6</em> bonus to Disarm attempts.</p><p></p><p><em>Example 3:</em></p><p> <em>- Normal: </em>Cor is a 16th level fighter with a 19 Dexterity and Combat Reflexes. He may make four attacks of opportunity per round.</p><p> <em> - Changed: </em>With Feat Mastery (+3), he may make <em>seven </em>attacks of opportunity per round.</p><p></p><p>Now, I'm aware that this doesn't address the fact that the fighter is still lacking in some feat choices at higher levels, but it <em>does</em> (or seems to, anyway,) provide a bit of incentive for a character to take more than 4-8 levels of the class. And there are some places where it wouldn't quite work. (For one, with this change, I'd remove Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization - a fighter with the normal versions would be getting +5 to attacks and +7 to damage, and he doesn't need to double that.)</p><p></p><p>That said, what're the balance issues here? Is this a reasonable way of powering the class up? Or am I missing something that boosts them completely off the chart? I know that it's a little bit "more of the same," but at the very least, it's a pretty respectable level of more of the same.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Terraism, post: 2259191, member: 278"] (Yup. Another "fighter's are underpowered after about level eight" thread. I'm going to be working from that perspective for the rest of this post, by the way.) I think the best-known issue with fighters is the fact that, while they get a large number of feats - they're the "feat masters," as it were - there just aren't quite enough feats out there (in the core books, anyway,) for them to keep using those bonus feats at higher levels. Sure, they have more to take, but after they've gotten the feat tree devoted to their preferred fighting style, then what? They take a tree that's not quite as relevant, but still useful. Then less relevant, then... anyway. Getting back to that "feat master" thing. As I see it, fighters are supposed to be the best at straight-up combat. Barbarians are better at tearing through things, frothing at the mouth and doing insane amounts of damage. Paladins have divine backup. Rangers are tricksy little fellows. Fighters, on the other hand... well, they have a lot of feats. More than everyone else. What if they were better at them, too? I've been trying to figure out a way to increase the power of fighters at higher-levels, while keeping it about the same early on, where they're just fine. And I keep coming back to the "feat master" idea. How crazy would something like this be? [b]Feat Mastery (Ex):[/b] Numerical effects and bonuses from feats on the list of fighter bonus feats are increased by +1 at 8th level, +2 at 12th level, +3 at 16th level, and +4 at 20th level. [i]Example 1: - Normal: [/i]Joe is a 9th level fighter with a 14 Intelligence. He has has Combat Expertise, and sacrifices two points from his attack bonus to gain a +2 bonus to his AC until his next action. [i] - Changed: [/i]Because he has Feat Mastery (+1), he gains a +3 bonus to his AC. [i]Example 2: - Normal: [/i]Joe is a 12th level fighter with Improved Disarm, giving him a +4 bonus to Disarm attempts. [i] - Changed: [/i]Because he has Feat Mastery (+2), he gains a [i]+6[/i] bonus to Disarm attempts. [i]Example 3: - Normal: [/i]Cor is a 16th level fighter with a 19 Dexterity and Combat Reflexes. He may make four attacks of opportunity per round. [i] - Changed: [/i]With Feat Mastery (+3), he may make [i]seven [/i]attacks of opportunity per round. Now, I'm aware that this doesn't address the fact that the fighter is still lacking in some feat choices at higher levels, but it [i]does[/i] (or seems to, anyway,) provide a bit of incentive for a character to take more than 4-8 levels of the class. And there are some places where it wouldn't quite work. (For one, with this change, I'd remove Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization - a fighter with the normal versions would be getting +5 to attacks and +7 to damage, and he doesn't need to double that.) That said, what're the balance issues here? Is this a reasonable way of powering the class up? Or am I missing something that boosts them completely off the chart? I know that it's a little bit "more of the same," but at the very least, it's a pretty respectable level of more of the same. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Changing the high-level fighter
Top