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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TheClone" data-source="post: 5676887" data-attributes="member: 90399">I stumbled upon this when I saw a new druid character, level one, having the usual 18 WIS and being trained in perception. It's a total of 19, which is exactly the hard DC in the official skill DC table. Level 2 with a +1 bonus for half to the skill is DC 20. This goes on until level 5 or so. If you want to introduce things which are hard to spot you're doomed. I wasn't even thinking about traps then, but about additional information that can give the story a new twist, but it also works without it. That though did spoil my fun when prepping the game session. Luckily it's not yet played, so I can use Mustrum's idea.I think the idea is pretty neat, as it adds more tension to the game. I guess in most cases the whole group rolling Perception will produce at least one success. But if they do not, they know there is something. They just don't know what it is and have to be careful. Is it a trap? A secret door with treasure behind it? So I like Mustrum's idea. It's even better than changing the DCs. With that you need the players to roll to be able to spot something. After they learned that, they'll always be on their tiptoes and tell "We'll approach this passage carefully", which is kinda metagamey. I'll use that variant rule as a house rule from now on.AND none of the players feels cheated, which they might I would just raise the DC. They've built their character to be able to do just that and I'm ruining it. Not very nice.One little rant, I'd like to add about the passive values: It's statistically strange. Passive values describe your constant awareness of your surroundings (you will never leave home willingly without your pants). But is has - statistically - almost the same chance of success as your roll when observing your surroundings actively. A roll has a mean value of 10.5 and passive values base on 10. The only difference is, that you automatically fail on the difficult things (which you don't if you max your skill value, as noted above). But statistically you are as alert in passive mode as in active mode, like constantly being on your tiptoes. That really feels strange. Changing the 10 for passive values is somehow undermining the very foundations of the (old and new) d20 system, but using 7 oder 8 instead of 10 feels more right and immersive to me.</blockquote>

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