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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7035132" data-attributes="member: 20323">You're right. I thought incapacitated was more like unconsciousness, but it's actually more like being momentarily dazed. Thanks for correcting me.Yeah, the more I look at it, I just don't understand the lack of a save / hit point mechanic for sleep (and color spray). It's such a weird exception to the rules.I think I should be able to include an at higher levels clause so that one sleep spell can account for short-sneak version and long-lasting curse version.I think the trick with #1 is that to make sleep work how I envision, while keeping it a 1st-level spell (for starters), is going to require some conditional limits to how it can be used.Yeah, I really don't understand the design logic behind no saves / the hit point mechanic for sleep and color spray. What's the thinking there? Why are those two spells such an exception?I guess my question is whether there's any good reason to keep ANY kind of "number of HP or HD affected" rule for sleep (or color spray)? I'm not too concerned about sleep being overpowered or anything (and let's be honest: in that scenario the Rogue is likely going to be the one doing the throat-slitting to take advantage of Advantage/Crittting with sneak attack).My issue is thematic. If I haven't communicated that clearly, let me use this specific example...From an older thread: <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?473592-Sleep-spell-overpowered/page2" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?473592-Sleep-spell-overpowered/page2</a>The intimidation part was great role-playing. The part that's jarring for me is in red.While I think exhaustion is probably the wrong mechanic (due to all the negative modifiers associated with it making it a HUGE penalty), I like how you're thinking. Some kind of delayed onset time could be interesting for supporting sneaky-sleep; an example already in the game is flesh to stone which goes restrained > potentially petrified if failing 3 saves.</blockquote>

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