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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7783022" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I'm pretty sure we are. We both seem to agree as to the gist of the plot.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Just? Just? Rarely in a person's life do they have motive to engage in acts of stereotypical villainy like murdering a bunch of children. Most of the evil of the real world occurs because of more mundane acts undertaken with more mundane motives, but those actions are no less evil for being mundane and ordinary than the ones that are extraordinary. Often we find if we go digging, that the mundane acts are the basis and foundation of the extraordinary acts. For example, if we go digging in the Dominican Republic right now, I bet we would find a simple but sorrid tale of greed, deceit, and bribery around some bottles of fake high end alchohol tainted with some poisonous, colorless, tasteless achohol unfit for human consumption but cheaper than the luxury items that it replaced. But that scheme is for all it's mundaneness no less evil in the appraisal or in results than chopping up children with lightsabers. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But Ben Solo's fall is less rationalized than Anakin's as well. We still have no clear idea why it happened, nor did the explanations make any of it make any more sense. While it would certainly be disheartening to have your only child turn into a serial killer and a Neo-Nazi, none of that would excuse his abandoning of his beliefs, his morality, his maturity, or his wife. You don't get a pass on being evil just because you've had a hard time of it. And since we still don't know why Ben Solo fell, we cannot assume as you have generously assumed, that the evil behavior of his father began in response to Ben's evil or was - as is often the case with children - the cause of it. If we knew that Han abandoned is beliefs, his morals, and his wife before Ben went bad, would that instead mean Ben was excused because he was disheartened?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7783022, member: 4937"] I'm pretty sure we are. We both seem to agree as to the gist of the plot. Just? Just? Rarely in a person's life do they have motive to engage in acts of stereotypical villainy like murdering a bunch of children. Most of the evil of the real world occurs because of more mundane acts undertaken with more mundane motives, but those actions are no less evil for being mundane and ordinary than the ones that are extraordinary. Often we find if we go digging, that the mundane acts are the basis and foundation of the extraordinary acts. For example, if we go digging in the Dominican Republic right now, I bet we would find a simple but sorrid tale of greed, deceit, and bribery around some bottles of fake high end alchohol tainted with some poisonous, colorless, tasteless achohol unfit for human consumption but cheaper than the luxury items that it replaced. But that scheme is for all it's mundaneness no less evil in the appraisal or in results than chopping up children with lightsabers. But Ben Solo's fall is less rationalized than Anakin's as well. We still have no clear idea why it happened, nor did the explanations make any of it make any more sense. While it would certainly be disheartening to have your only child turn into a serial killer and a Neo-Nazi, none of that would excuse his abandoning of his beliefs, his morality, his maturity, or his wife. You don't get a pass on being evil just because you've had a hard time of it. And since we still don't know why Ben Solo fell, we cannot assume as you have generously assumed, that the evil behavior of his father began in response to Ben's evil or was - as is often the case with children - the cause of it. If we knew that Han abandoned is beliefs, his morals, and his wife before Ben went bad, would that instead mean Ben was excused because he was disheartened? [/QUOTE]
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