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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 226153" data-attributes="member: 2067">DisagreeingI'd have to respectfully disagree with a few points, but hey. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Chaotic Neutral is not a cop-out alignment, and should not be thought of "I can do anything." A Chaotic alignment means individualistic, rebellious, a love of freedom and a glorious reveling in that which makes things different.Chaotic Neutral can be a lot of things, but it should never violate those tenets. Chaotic Good tends to support them because that is the ideal, where no one would live under the command of those who may pervert and corrupt order to their own ends. Chaotic Evil tends to support them because it is in that environment that they may gain the most power for themselves, and cause the most pain to others -- without The Man keeping them down.I say the PC should still be able to choose CN. There's nothing wrong with playing this type of character: an embracer of freedom both for the good (hey! no oppression!) and the bad (hey! He can steal from you unless you can stop it!). A Chaotic Neutral person should probably support the actions of a Chaotic Evil person (or at least their freedom to do that), and those of a Chaotic Good person (who cares what we're opposing? All law sucks!).CN people can work in a group, as long as they remain distinct individuals and he advances his own goals along with the groups -- don't expect CN Billy to go out of his way to help Ted the Dead Dwarf get revived. It's not his problem. He had freedom to get killed, and there's no reason we should infringe on his freedom to die. CN doesn't nessecarily mean self-serving (that's evil), but it does mean that individuals are more important than masses. He is more important than the group, and the blacksmith is more important than the town and each flower is more important than the entire bed.IMHO, the problem of characters doing whatever they want is completely seperate -- and not even really a problem. I think it's kind of lazy of a DM to say "You have to do this." They're within their rights, and I wouldn't say that they shouldn't be able to say that, but I don't really think it's in good taste. If they have fun killing blacksmiths who jilt them, why stop them? Let them know they'll be evil, and adapt to it. He kills a blacksmith? Cool, you've got another adventure when he's tracked down by guards and put in the slammer. If he escapes (which he should be able to do, unless you're a Rat Bastard DM (tm)), he's got a lot of problems. Killing innocents usually means that The Heroes are after you...So they're not heroes. Don't make them be. Play the villains. That way, as a DM, you can be the Heroes hunting them down and wanting to end their Reign of Terror. Or play the Disintrested Ones. As a DM, your challenge is then to give them a REASON to save the world from evil.Of course, running evil campaigns has a whole new set of problems inherent in it...you can't depend on PC heroics, or even that they'll care about the ravaging goblin band threatening the city (a Neutral party might not care about that either...). You have to make the campaign a deeply personal one, with tendrils that reach into the faux-lives of the fictional characters and draw them out into the world. You can't say "Darkness is spreading: stop it!"So, in summary: CN should still be allowed, because it can be played right. And parties who do whatever they want need a change in the adventure outline, not a railroad that makes them do things your way.Of course, the DM is still within his rights to say: "Sorry bub, not in this campaign," if he wants to make it easy on him, or has a specific idea in mind for the campaign that certain ideas wouldn't be compatible with. But I would say "roll with it." Just because they're of Ambiguous Morality doesn't mean they can't go on quests, fight monsters, earn treasure, and get adventurous. It just means that they can't be heroes. Eh. Heroism is overrated. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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