Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="aboyd" data-source="post: 4389455" data-attributes="member: 44797">I kinda knew that when I mentioned it:However, it's metagamey for enemies to know to do this right away.&nbsp; Every single one, every single time, would need to experience this problem for him/her self and react to it, at which point a couple rounds of damage would have already been done.That's really metagamey.&nbsp; A spiked chain build appears in your game world and suddenly the enemies are equipped with 10+ reach weapons?&nbsp; If a barbarian pours all his feats into his axe proficiency, do your enemies suddenly gain DR?&nbsp; If a player wants to play an Ignus build and torch the planet, is the game world suddenly populated by Efreeti?Anything can be countered.&nbsp; That's not a good reason to say &quot;don't bother with the build, try something else.&quot;&nbsp; The real question is, how easy &amp; frequently will it be countered?Trip builds?&nbsp; Sometimes they win, sometimes they need other tactics.&nbsp; But it IS a viable build, unless you have a DM who isn't fighting fair.&nbsp; And someone moving at inhuman, and frankly, even faster-than-scary-monster speeds?&nbsp; That should surprise people.&nbsp; Lots of them.&nbsp; Frequently.Consider that such characters would be moving at what -- to them -- felt like a normal walking speed but was actually a 3-minute mile.&nbsp; They would outpace our world's best runners, and they'd do it without breaking a sweat.&nbsp; If you let this build run -- barbs get 5x speed -- that's 4500 feet in 1 minute.&nbsp; That's what, 55 miles per hour?&nbsp; This person would run onto a highway and keep up with traffic.&nbsp; To me, I either have to accept that the player has done something interesting and surprising -- and admit that they get some benefits from pouring feats and spells into it -- or else I have to declare the build taboo because it breaks the game even though it follows the rules.With 4 levels of barbarian and what looks like a combat cleric, he hardly falls into the spellcaster arena.&nbsp; This isn't the kind of build where I'd say &quot;you're losing spell levels!&quot;&nbsp; It's more like a few dips into cleric domains to get some (surprising) buffs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="aboyd, post: 4389455, member: 44797"] I kinda knew that when I mentioned it: However, it's metagamey for enemies to know to do this right away. Every single one, every single time, would need to experience this problem for him/her self and react to it, at which point a couple rounds of damage would have already been done. That's [i]really[/i] metagamey. A spiked chain build appears in your game world and suddenly the enemies are equipped with 10+ reach weapons? If a barbarian pours all his feats into his axe proficiency, do your enemies suddenly gain DR? If a player wants to play an Ignus build and torch the planet, is the game world suddenly populated by Efreeti? Anything can be countered. That's not a good reason to say "don't bother with the build, try something else." The real question is, [i]how[/i] easy & frequently will it be countered? Trip builds? Sometimes they win, sometimes they need other tactics. But it IS a viable build, unless you have a DM who isn't fighting fair. And someone moving at inhuman, and frankly, even faster-than-scary-monster speeds? That should surprise people. Lots of them. Frequently. Consider that such characters would be moving at what -- to them -- felt like a normal walking speed but was actually a 3-minute mile. They would outpace our world's best runners, and they'd do it without breaking a sweat. If you let this build [i]run[/i] -- barbs get 5x speed -- that's 4500 feet in 1 minute. That's what, 55 miles per hour? This person would run onto a highway and keep up with traffic. To me, I either have to accept that the player has done something interesting and surprising -- and admit that they get some benefits from pouring feats and spells into it -- or else I have to declare the build taboo because it breaks the game even though it follows the rules. With 4 levels of barbarian and what looks like a combat cleric, he hardly falls into the spellcaster arena. This isn't the kind of build where I'd say "you're losing spell levels!" It's more like a few dips into cleric domains to get some (surprising) buffs. [/QUOTE]

Verification