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<blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 6707831">Okay, I'll be honest, if you want your character to be good at something, why would you stat them so they are bad at it?If it's part of your character that you're average at something and stat appropriately, that's still optimizing, just with the goal of your ideal character performance instead of ideal mechanical performance.&nbsp; If you wanted to make say, a sexy spanish rogue who hit on all the beautiful ladies, why would you give him a CHA of 8?&nbsp; What you'd end up doing is simply annoying everyone at the table as you consistently performed badly at your romance attempts.&nbsp; I've played with people like this before.&nbsp; They want their character to be good at X but don't design them mechnically to be good at X, so they end up being bad at X, which makes them frustrated, takes up time at the table, puts the party at risk and results in a un-fun time for everyone.So I'll be honest, if you want to play your character like they're good at something but not support that role-play with the appropriate mechanics, I don't want to play with you.&nbsp; I don't care what you want to be good at, but I see no reason why anyone would stat themselves to be bad at something they want to be good at, it's completely contrary.And this whole argument that optimizers should only play with optimizers strikes me as the TTRPG version of different colored fountains.&nbsp; I make an effort to make the best character I can, I also make an effort to not overshadow others, and to not put other people down.&nbsp; What matters is the last part, because anyone doing anything at the table can do those last two and those are the two are the ones that people get upset over.&nbsp; If that's more common with optimizers (which I'm not interested in debating if it isn't or isn't) then the solution to all table problems remains: find better players.&nbsp; If you're going to hang a big sign on your table &quot;NO OPTIMIZERS ALLOWED!&quot; I'm going to argue that it's not the potential optimizing player who is the problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sunseeker, post: 6707831"] Okay, I'll be honest, if you want your character to be good at something, why would you stat them so they are bad at it? If it's part of your character that you're [I]average[/I] at something and stat appropriately, that's [I]still[/I] optimizing, just with the goal of your ideal character performance instead of ideal mechanical performance. If you wanted to make say, a sexy spanish rogue who hit on all the beautiful ladies, why would you give him a CHA of 8? What you'd end up doing is simply annoying everyone at the table as you consistently performed badly at your romance attempts. I've played with people like this before. They want their character to be good at X but don't design them mechnically to be good at X, so they end up being bad at X, which makes them frustrated, takes up time at the table, puts the party at risk and results in a un-fun time for [B]everyone[/B]. So I'll be honest, if you want to play your character like they're good at something but not support that role-play with the appropriate mechanics, I don't want to play with you. I don't care [I]what[/I] you want to be good at, but I see no reason why anyone would stat themselves to be bad at something they want to be good at, it's completely contrary. And this whole argument that optimizers should only play with optimizers strikes me as the TTRPG version of different colored fountains. I make an effort to make the best character I can, I also make an effort to not overshadow others, and to not put other people down. What matters is the last part, because anyone doing anything at the table can do those last two and those are the two are the ones that people get upset over. If that's more common with optimizers (which I'm not interested in debating if it isn't or isn't) then the solution to all table problems remains: find better players. If you're going to hang a big sign on your table "NO OPTIMIZERS ALLOWED!" I'm going to argue that it's not the potential optimizing player who is the problem. [/QUOTE]

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