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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6708934" data-attributes="member: 6787650">Sure. I think the key point is that fun is best when you don't have other people in your group trying to control you. If you feel pressured to optimize more in order to keep up, or if you feel pressured to play down to a level you're not comfortable with, the problem isn't the level you're playing at--it's the pressure and whatever is motivating it. And if that pressure can't be resolved, you will not playing for long.Nobody wants to be pressured. Hopefully we agree on that much at least.P.S. Just to be clear, optimization isn't really &quot;how I have fun.&quot; It is something that I instinctively do while I'm having fun with other things. I don't have to stop and think to realize that blowing a 9th level slot on Chromatic Orb or Mass Healing Word is a bad idea: it is blindingly obvious even if I'm playing a shy diplomat Enchanter. If you're talking strictly about someone whose idea of fun is maximizing DPR, then we're not talking about the same subject. But I would point out that there is probably someone who thinks you're an optimizer, relative to them, and if they asked you to &quot;stop optimizing&quot; when you're just playing normally, I expect you'd be taken aback. Hence my position that the root problem is pressuring other people, and the pressure can come from either direction (step up/tone down), and either way it is a social problem and not a playstyle problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6708934, member: 6787650"] Sure. I think the key point is that fun is best when you don't have other people in your group trying to control you. If you feel pressured to optimize more in order to keep up, or if you feel pressured to play down to a level you're not comfortable with, the problem isn't the level you're playing at--it's the pressure and whatever is motivating it. And if that pressure can't be resolved, you will not playing for long. Nobody wants to be pressured. Hopefully we agree on that much at least. P.S. Just to be clear, optimization isn't really "how I have fun." It is something that I instinctively do while I'm having fun with other things. I don't have to stop and think to realize that blowing a 9th level slot on Chromatic Orb or Mass Healing Word is a bad idea: it is blindingly obvious even if I'm playing a shy diplomat Enchanter. If you're talking strictly about someone whose idea of fun is maximizing DPR, then we're not talking about the same subject. But I would point out that there is probably someone who thinks [I]you're[/I] an optimizer, relative to them, and if they asked you to "stop optimizing" when you're just playing normally, I expect you'd be taken aback. Hence my position that the root problem is pressuring other people, and the pressure can come from either direction (step up/tone down), and either way it is a social problem and not a playstyle problem. [/QUOTE]

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