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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 6710165" data-attributes="member: 2525">There is a lot of theoretical here.  But this started with a complaint about the actual threads being moved over from WOTC that are optimization threads, and people who don't like them.And those same people who don't like them, for the most part, have never read them.A few people tried to explain early on they're not what you think, but we seem to have gotten away from that.  Let's return to that point, because it's an important one.  They're not what you think, and you should read a few before concluding they're bad.First Point: The guides are just structured opinions on rules. For the most part it's just an organized way for people to discuss a class or idea.  For example, people will simply list all the spells of first level for a wizard, and then discuss each of those spells and give their opinion on them.  The structure they use is a color code which indicates whether they think the spell is always good, situationally good, or usually a poor one.And then people discuss that opinion.  They debate situations where a spell can be good or bad.That's it - that's how most of these guides are built.  It's mostly just a structure to discuss rules, with people just exchanging opinions.  Sometimes the original poster is persuaded and changes the color they coded something, sometimes they're not persuaded.  Few people use the guide to do just exactly what the original poster says they should do - it's just a series of opinions, with structure to it.Second Point: Many of the most popular guides are themed on the concept of helping the party as a whole, not dominating the party with damage per round.The most popular Wizard guide is written by Treatmonk - whose entire theme is making a wizard which everyone else thinks is useless in play but in reality is helping every other PC do better.  Helping them attack with advantage, or give the foes disadvantage, or help people position themselves better, or prevent foes from swarming on your allies, etc..  It does nearly zero damage.  And even other Wizard guides (like the one I just copied over here) is based on the advice from Treatmonk, and credits his guide as inspiration.What's the most popular Bard guide? Same darn theme! Zardinar for example wrote a popular Lore Bard guide here, and the entire theme is again about helping the party do their damage and protecting the party, rather than the Bard itself doing any damage.Cleric gudies? They start with the power of Bless - a spell that helps the entire party hit better.  Druid guides? Faerie Fire - a spell that makes the foes hit worse against the whole party.  Take a look through these guides, and you will find many of them are nothing like the stereotypes bandied about this thread about "Handing the ball to Kobe". These are not, in general, guides to being the Damage Per Round kings.Third Point: Some guides exist to make a concept usable.  For example, I wrote a brief guide to making a dagger thrower (I am not even sure if the advice there works anymore since it was written).  But the only point of the guide was to try and find a way for someone who wants to play a dagger thrower to make one that actually works.  It's not "powerful", just "usable".  Because you can't just make a dagger thrower in this game, due to the way it's written, and expect to ever be even slightly vaguely effective at it - not good, just somewhat close to actually getting to the role playing concept you have using the rules. It's a quirk of the rules, and a guide helps find a way to build the role playing idea you want.So give the Guides a quick read before you judge them as simply tools for someone to hog the spotlight and deal as much damage as possible.  Anyone can be a jerk, but in general the Guides are just organized discussions of the rules, often to help the party in general without taking the spotlight, or to help achieve the role playing concept you have in mind.  They're pretty good articles, written by good people, who are not trying to harm games or role playing.</blockquote>

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