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<blockquote data-quote="Thasmodious" data-source="post: 4978654" data-attributes="member: 63272">I've agreed with Umbran throughout as I've read this thread, and this is exactly it for me.&nbsp; The player designs the character and has a responsibility to play the character he designed.&nbsp; A low stat carries a number of disadvantages and for mental stats, many of those are the similar to RP based disadvantages and they should certainly be played.&nbsp; One of the big reasons I dislike adv/disadv systems is just that min/max attitude that tends to come in to play far too often - well, I know the DM doesn't use knowledge rolls much, so I'll take the uneducated flaw, it won't come up much, now to pick my free feats!In my games, they do come up, so do bad stats.&nbsp; There are mechanics tied to those stats, and they should certainly be enforced, but there are also advantages and disadvantages in the RP arena tied to those stats.&nbsp; In modern D&amp;D, of course, RP is often backed by skill rolls anyway, which makes it considerably easier for any PC to play his stats.&nbsp; The player of Barf the Unsightly may try to sweet talk the barmaid, but his 6 cha and no diplomacy skill is going to get in his way.I am a big fan of &quot;the DMs friend&quot; the circumstance bonus and use it frequently.&nbsp; That is where I find reward or penalty for player skill.&nbsp; A player doesn't have to display to the table the exact words and manner in which his smooth talking bard presents the parties proposal to the Duke, that's what his diplomacy is for.&nbsp; But circumstance modifiers come into play based on what line he takes and the manner he describes going about it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thasmodious, post: 4978654, member: 63272"] I've agreed with Umbran throughout as I've read this thread, and this is exactly it for me. The player designs the character and has a responsibility to play the character he designed. A low stat carries a number of disadvantages and for mental stats, many of those are the similar to RP based disadvantages and they should certainly be played. One of the big reasons I dislike adv/disadv systems is just that min/max attitude that tends to come in to play far too often - well, I know the DM doesn't use knowledge rolls much, so I'll take the uneducated flaw, it won't come up much, now to pick my free feats! In my games, they do come up, so do bad stats. There are mechanics tied to those stats, and they should certainly be enforced, but there are also advantages and disadvantages in the RP arena tied to those stats. In modern D&D, of course, RP is often backed by skill rolls anyway, which makes it considerably easier for any PC to play his stats. The player of Barf the Unsightly may try to sweet talk the barmaid, but his 6 cha and no diplomacy skill is going to get in his way. I am a big fan of "the DMs friend" the circumstance bonus and use it frequently. That is where I find reward or penalty for player skill. A player doesn't have to display to the table the exact words and manner in which his smooth talking bard presents the parties proposal to the Duke, that's what his diplomacy is for. But circumstance modifiers come into play based on what line he takes and the manner he describes going about it. [/QUOTE]

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