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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4978747" data-attributes="member: 4937">I'm glad we are in agreement.No, he won't.  Especially at low levels of play, the randomness of a d20 greatly outweighs the modifiers.  At 1st level, I would expect an INT 8 character to pass intelligence checks when the INT 18 character didn't by sheer randomness.  The above 'excerpt from play' represents among other things an off the cuff way of representing this in game in what I consider a mature fashion.  The player/character is in this situation 'surprisingly' smarted that the player/character who is known for his high intelligence, play it out.What does that have to do with anything?  Are you trying to imply that increasing in intelligence is the only way for someone to grow in depth, complexity, or drama?  It sure sounds that way.  My you have a low opinion of people without a high intelligence.  In my experience, real world people with low intelligences are just as real, complex, and interesting as smart people.   Nothing prevents the Krank of the above comic scene from being a very interesting and maturely realized character.  Ok.  Here's my extensive guide:1) Your character has an 8 INT.  When is the last time you've said or did anything in character which has referred to or highlighted this fact?No, the short story I told about the 'big dumb oaf' Krank is a good story.  It's an example of a game I'd like to participate in.Doesn't really matter what adjective you use to describe it, and as long as we are calling something 'silly', I think arguing over the wording qualifies.  The central point is, "How do you play any character with intelligence higher than yourself?", and I thought I gave some guidance on how to do that.  I want you though to note a very important lack of symmetry between playing a character dumber than you are and playing a character smarter than you are.  In the case of playing someone smarter than your are, you can use knowledge checks to learn things you as a player don't know, allowing you to act accordingly.  In the case of playing someone dumber than you are, you can't use knowledge checks to unlearn things you as a player already know.  Thus, if you as a character refuse to act ignorantly, the knowledge check system presents absolutely no mechanical barrier to your character knowing something.  If you continually subvert the mechanical penalty of being stupid by relying on your vast knowledge and reasoning ability as a player, then it is cheating.But all right, let's go by pre-3E standards and change the number from 24 to 18. That's maximum human intelligence, the smartest guy who ever lived. How can you justify this guy not being able to solve every puzzle he's presented with, if it's solvable by human minds? Why can I as player not demand the answer to every riddle the DM throws at me?</blockquote>[/QUOTE]

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