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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Oni" data-source="post: 4981745" data-attributes="member: 380">For whatever reason this discussion keeps sticking in my mind and so this post will be an attempt to clarify my own thoughts for myself and hopefully it will be constructive to the overall conversation as well.  We have a couple of approaches here to roleplaying a character and creating a personality.  At one end of the spectrum personality is determined prior to play.  Either first crafting a personality and then matching the mechanics to that foundation, or doing the reverse and using the mechanics as a foundation to creating a personality that fits those numbers.  In either case the basics of the personality are known before play begins and quality of roleplay is measured by how well the player acts within those pregenerated parameters and most lauded when the player puts characterization over success and survival.  At the other extreme we have character as a blank slate.  The player may have a few guide post in the form of mechanics (i.e. the character a good chance at success in endeavors ABC, and a poor chance of success in endeavors XYZ) as a launching point, but personality is an unknown quality at the start of play.  The quality of roleplay is now measured by the personality that emerges during the course of play as events of the game, success and failures shape actions and attitude and most lauded when the character ceases to be generic fighter #5 and becomes a distinct and memorable personality.  In the first style of roleplaying the mechanics justify the roleplay and the roleplay justifies the mechanics, i.e. the player wants to act smart because his character has a high intelligence stat and because his character wants a high intelligence stat because the player acts smart.  In the second style of roleplay the mechanics exist outside of the personality of a character though the adjudication shapes the course of play and through it the emergence of personality in an organic manner.  Now I think it is fair to say that in practise most roleplayers fall somewhere between these two extremes, mixing the approaches to some degree or another.  I think it is important, though we may not agree on which approach is best, that we agree they are both legitimate approaches to roleplaying.  Sort of the differences between and actor that stays true to the writers vision versus the actor that injecting their self into the role and creating a new character.  Both styles do have their pitfalls, the overstating of which can make conversation difficult.  In the first style, predetermination can become a straight jacket and there can be a tendency among its most militant proponents to develop an overly narrow interpretation of a given role that they try to hold others to.  The most egregious example being perhaps the DM who dictates the actions of players' characters based on his or her view of the characters rather than the players' view.  The flip side of that is that the openness of the second style can invite those less dedicated to roleplaying a personality to use the openness as a justification to step outside the bounds of character knowledge into the realm of meta-game knowledge that borders nearly as much on cheating as taking a peak at the DM's notes.  In my opinion, some in this discussion have tried to take opposing views to "their logical conclusion" and pigeonhole their proponents into the very pitfalls I mentioned above.  I believe this is ample evidence that these approaches to roleplaying and character developement tend to work best when they are not pushed to their very extreme, but viewed in a manner that considers their most useful and practical application rather than some absurd theoretical limit.  There is also another thing to consider.  These approaches do not exist in a vacuum.  Their application is affected by how rules are used, and by the choice of rules set.  For instance when you start using a system that quantifies advantages and disadvantages, by necessity to enforce the stability of the system you are forcing yourself to move in the direction of predetermining personality parameters to prevent unpaid for advantages.   So all games may not run equally smoothly for all approaches.  Hopefully this attempt to parse my own thoughts on the matter add something of use to the discussion.</blockquote>

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