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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 6265166" data-attributes="member: 6668292">I'd like to see any edition do this. I don't think I've seen this, and I expected more out of 4e here. I have a Fighter (Knight) in the 4e game I'm running, and while he has some stuff outside of combat, it's incredibly limited compared to the Wizard (Sha'ir). Outside of combat, he has the Athletics, Endurance, Heal and Intimidate skills, though the latter two both have low ability modifiers. She has the encounter cantrips that allow her to substitute Arcana for Stealth, Diplomacy, and Intimidate, as well as Prestidigitation, and the History, Arcana, Nature, and Dungeoneering skills (with History and Arcana keying off of a high attribute). Oh yeah, she also has ritual casting.In combat, the Wizard is more versatile. Sure, the Knight is one of the simple classes, but at best, if we substituted for a regular ol' PHB Fighter, he'd about tie her (they'd both control some via marks or zones / Hypnotism, and though he'd be more survivable, she'd have range).Before 4e, I heard a lot about how "mundanes" were given more "narrative control" and the like. While I think this is true to some extent (the skill system being very open helps), it's nowhere near equal. When I read  @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a>'s play reports and I see a spellcaster use a spell to affect creatures through a mirror, I think "no way the Fighter has stuff like that." At best, he's used Come and Get It on some water, but that's about the only instance I can think of off-hand. (He does have followers, but that could be done with any class, and I've wondered before if pemerton gave it to the Fighter to help him gain some narrative control that the class seems to distinctly lack.)Yes, 4e evened things up in combat, but I don't even feel versatility has been matched there (with things like Arcane Gate offering more versatility than what Fighters get in or out of combat... and again, we're not touching on rituals or cantrips, which the base Wizard gets for free).Now, a player recently added a Ranger (Scout) to my game; he definitely seems versatile in and out of combat (melee, ranged, good movement, Wilderness Knacks, etc.). But Fighters? Not from what I can tell.(Side note: I'm taking a shot at 4e, but not with malice, as I've had a lot of fun running it, and it's my only current campaign; I'd love to see a 5e that gives Fighters some options, too. I think the Scout, as he's built, with Wilderness Knacks, good skills, versatile combat abilities, and Martial Practices is very robust. I'd love to see something like this for Fighters in comparison to 5e spellcasters. What I'm saying, though, is that I don't think any edition has handled Fighters well yet in this area.)</blockquote>

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