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<blockquote data-quote="Irda Ranger" data-source="post: 4203904" data-attributes="member: 1003">Dear lord.&nbsp; There is too much anger and excitement on this thread for me to get involved.&nbsp; I think everyone should walk away from the computer for a few minutes, and maybe consider a nicer way of putting things.&nbsp; Without pointing fingers, the disdain in some posts is palpable.I'm just going to speak to the OP's point:You mean they'll be able to make them in June, or &quot;eventually&quot;?If you mean &quot;eventually&quot;, then a lot of floodgates open.&nbsp; But if you mean in June: No.&nbsp; There's simply no way to &quot;re-theme&quot; any of the 4E base classes into a Psionicist (they've stripped out most of the Ench/Charm spells, remember?).&nbsp; No illusionists.&nbsp; No necromancers.&nbsp; No swordmages in June. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; How would you make Haplo from the Death Gate Cycle?&nbsp; What about an Akashic from Arcana Evolved?Plus, there are many systems of magic out there that just don't mesh with D&amp;D 4E.&nbsp; The novels of Jack Vance spring to mind. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />But there's a broader problem: not all fantasy characters stick to a clear combat Role (Gandalf); others are just too powerful (Rand al'Thor).&nbsp; You simply can't make these &quot;too good for PCs&quot; characters.&nbsp; I think the combat role system will work out fine, but it is restrictive (in a good way, for a game).What matters?&nbsp; To whom?&nbsp; To you?What if my character concept is that he's a great musician?&nbsp; What if I want his songs to mesmerize and enchant?&nbsp; Can I just hand-waive away the fact that Wizards use wands and don't Enchant people very often?Hogwash, for the reasons above.&nbsp; I'll never get hung up over a couple Skill Points here or there, but if even the big details can't be found in the 4E rules, your system doesn't work.&nbsp; If what I &quot;want&quot; is a berserker who flies into a rage at the scent of blood, it's very likely that 4E will NOT give me what I want - and not for reasons of a berserker being unbalanced.[Han Solo] I can imagine quite a lot. [/Han Solo]Frankly, no.&nbsp; Just no. I can imagine dozens of character concepts (no rules!) that simply won't work in 4E.&nbsp;I get all this.&nbsp; I'm not trying to be rude, but there wasn't anything in your post that was new to me.&nbsp; Maybe it helped others, but I see your post as a lack of imagination.&nbsp; Even ignoring simple precedent.&nbsp; How on Faerun could I make a Sha'ir or Zombie Lord using 4E rules?&nbsp; I can't.&nbsp; To say that a Warlock is &quot;good enough&quot; for playing either of those classes is a bit like trying to sell me a <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Lq771TVm4" target="_blank">dead parrot</a>.&nbsp; They're so far away from Warlock that the gulf is uncrossable.&nbsp; Look, I think 4E is going to be lots of fun, and I'm sure that more and more concepts will be permissable as we expand the classes and feats available, but your post just comes across as naive and New-Agey.&nbsp; Some things simply aren't possible, and you can't wish them away by closing your eyes and wishing strongly to the contrary.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Irda Ranger, post: 4203904, member: 1003"] Dear lord. There is too much anger and excitement on this thread for me to get involved. I think everyone should walk away from the computer for a few minutes, and maybe consider a nicer way of putting things. Without pointing fingers, the disdain in some posts is palpable. I'm just going to speak to the OP's point: You mean they'll be able to make them in June, or "eventually"? If you mean "eventually", then a lot of floodgates open. But if you mean in June: No. There's simply no way to "re-theme" any of the 4E base classes into a Psionicist (they've stripped out most of the Ench/Charm spells, remember?). No illusionists. No necromancers. No swordmages in June. :) How would you make Haplo from the Death Gate Cycle? What about an Akashic from Arcana Evolved? Plus, there are many systems of magic out there that just don't mesh with D&D 4E. The novels of Jack Vance spring to mind. ;) But there's a broader problem: not all fantasy characters stick to a clear combat Role (Gandalf); others are just too powerful (Rand al'Thor). You simply can't make these "too good for PCs" characters. I think the combat role system will work out fine, but it is restrictive (in a good way, for a game). What [I]matters[/I]? To whom? To you? What if my character concept is that he's a great musician? What if I want his songs to mesmerize and enchant? Can I just hand-waive away the fact that Wizards use wands and don't Enchant people very often? Hogwash, for the reasons above. I'll never get hung up over a couple Skill Points here or there, but if even the big details can't be found in the 4E rules, your system doesn't work. If what I "want" is a berserker who flies into a rage at the scent of blood, it's very likely that 4E will NOT give me what I want - and not for reasons of a berserker being unbalanced. [Han Solo] I can imagine quite a lot. [/Han Solo] Frankly, no. Just no. I can imagine dozens of character concepts (no rules!) that simply won't work in 4E. I get all this. I'm not trying to be rude, but there wasn't anything in your post that was new to me. Maybe it helped others, but I see your post as a lack of imagination. Even ignoring simple precedent. How on Faerun could I make a Sha'ir or Zombie Lord using 4E rules? I can't. To say that a Warlock is "good enough" for playing either of those classes is a bit like trying to sell me a [URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Lq771TVm4]dead parrot[/URL]. They're so far away from Warlock that the gulf is uncrossable. Look, I think 4E is going to be lots of fun, and I'm sure that more and more concepts will be permissable as we expand the classes and feats available, but your post just comes across as naive and New-Agey. Some things simply aren't possible, and you can't wish them away by closing your eyes and wishing strongly to the contrary. [/QUOTE]

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