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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Minigiant" data-source="post: 5899100" data-attributes="member: 63508">This might sound like an obvious point, but the fighter should be the  best character in a fight. Other classes might have nifty tricks,  powerful spells, and other abilities, but when it’s time to put down a  monster without dying in the process, the fighter should be our best  class. A magic sword might make you better in a fight, but a fighter of  the same level is still strictly better. Perhaps a spell such as haste  lets you attack more often, but the fighter is still either making more  attacks or his or her attacks are more accurate or powerful.I reread this part of the Fighter Design Goals article and remembered something, I believe it was Mearls, said at PAX. It seems to at a given level, the highest attack bonus or greater number of attacks is owned by the fighter. Actually not does the fighter have the greatest bonus or number of attacks; it is the only one with that high bonus.This sets an interesting precedent if this design mentality is used for the whole edition. The X class is the best and Y. Fighters have the best accuracy, damage and/or most attacks. The Rogue is the best at hiding, disabling traps, and/or opening locks. So whenever a class received the ability that that another class was supposed to be the best at, the first class (the non-best one) had to have a strictly worse version.  To put it in perspective, I played a game of 3E with a DM with a mentality the X class had to be the best at Y. All his house rules were about enforcing this.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizards could cast haste at level 5. But Fighters had the most attacks. So Fighters received a mysterious bonus attack at full BAB when full attacking at level 5. Therefore at level 6, the fighter has a +6/+6/+1 full attack.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">And the Monk was the fastest. So the monk got +10 ft speed at level 1 to match the barbarian. And the it increased to +30 ft at level 5 to match haste. Soon after the monk was the fastest thing alive. He could really move.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">And the rogue was the best lockpick. So knock just gave a 1/2 caster level bonus to Open Locks. And rogue could pick Arcane Locks with sticks.</li> </ul>Basically the best had to be maintained and every feat, spell, and magic item had to be shifted, adjusted, or rewritten to support this. And it seems 5E is taking this route. Or something similar. Whenever a spellcaster gets a spell, a class gets a feature, or a character can "afford" a magic item that shifts into another class's specialty, it can't be greater than the specialist. Whatever level the wizard gets his 5d6 fireball spell, the fighter must deal more than ~18 damage in combat repeated. Essentially everything would be based on a massive Page 42. But it won't just be damage.  Single target damage for wizards, Multiple target damage, Number of Attacks, And Attack bonus for fighters. Number of Skill bonus for rogues. Healed HP for clerics. Social Pillar bonus for bard/paladin, Exploration Pillar bonus for rogue/ranger/warlock. Something like:Level 5 MaximumsDamage: 25 (for fighter)Area damage: 20 (for wizard)Unarmed damage: 20 (for monk)Accuracy: +8 (for fighter)Hit points: 40 (for barbarian)Healing: 10 HP (for cleric)Skill monkeyiing: 7 skills (for rogue)Opening Lock bonus: +10 (for rogue) Trap Finding Limit: 25 (for rogue)Charm bonus: +10 for (bard)Speed: 60 ft (for monk)So a 5th level's charm person cannot grant a bonus higher than +10. A pair of boots of speed that is increases a character's speed to 70ft is not appropriate for a level 5 party. The Slayer theme cannot bring a level 5 cleric's melee damage higher than 25. No background can grant more than 7 skills at level 5.Anyone else seeing something like that?</blockquote>

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