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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jadeite" data-source="post: 4358056" data-attributes="member: 14462">At least in Vampire, there is no challenge. Just create a caitiff and give him all the disciplines you want him to have, especially if those are secret clan disciplines. Also, optimization toward what goal? There is no challenge rating in the oWoD.I have never played Rifts, but from what I heard it's the epitome of power creep, so character optimization seems equally redundant there.There are of course other RPGS with CO potential, like "Das Schwarze Auge", but most of the WoD games aren't one of those. You may have better luck with Exalted.</blockquote>