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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6679083" data-attributes="member: 6677017">The bolded part absolutely fails to fulfill what we're going for here. If that got the job done, I wouldn't be waiting for gestalt multiclassing at all. It's completely inadequate for the concept. As far as the cleric/wizard, do you feel that a spell list that includes all of the 1st-5th level spells from the cleric and wizard spell lists is equivalent to either the cleric's or wizard's complete 1st-9th level spell list? I sure don't. If you wanted to multiclass them you'd be better off taking a couple levels in one and all the rest in the other. Then you can max your cure wounds or your magic missile or whatever, while still getting your high level spells from one of the lists. In order for an equal split to work, the total (non-spellcasting) features you got from being a level 10 cleric and a level 10 wizard would have to exceed the total (non-spellcasting) benefits you got from a 20th level cleric or a 20th level wizard by a sufficient margin to make up for the loss you get by having your spell list just be the 1st-5th level spells of two classes rather than the 1st-9th level spells of one. And it doesn't do that. I'm sure you could put together a combination where cleric 10/wizard 10 has better non-casting features than cleric 20 or wizard 20, just like I wouldn't be surprised if you could put together a gimped combo that way. But even if you put together a good combo, it still isn't making up for the loss of higher level spells.If I were a fighter/wizard in a 20th level party, and I could cast actual 7th level spells (like teleport or plane shift), I could serve as a poor man's party wizard while still fighting effectively. The party would probably rather have a full-wizard, but I can get the job done most of the time. If I had 5th level spells I couldn't. The versatility and vertical "utility power" isn't there. It's not about DPR, it's about being a master of the cosmos. With 5th level spells, you are a dabbler in a 20th level party.I've tried to explain this online enough times that I think it might be one of those "you have to see it to get it" sort of things.Hopefully gestalt multiclassing will capture the essence and be balanced. If done right, I see it becoming a popular new multiclassing option (for those who use variant rules like that). It scratches a different itch and provides a different mechanic.</blockquote>

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