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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 6412943" data-attributes="member: 5143">I try not to rank the intelligence of my friends.&nbsp; I really don't know who is the smartest and who is the dumbest.&nbsp; I assume they are all average so I don't have to look down on anyone or feel inferior to anyone.Besides, Intelligence, as I've said is a measure of knowledge and ability to learn and remember.&nbsp; I don't like to think of it in terms of &quot;You have an 8 Int, you are incapable of figuring this out.&quot;&nbsp; Both characters have an equal chance of figuring things out.&nbsp; One of them just has more knowledge and therefore more information on which to base their decision.Because metagaming is using the knowledge that this is a game in order to make your decision.&nbsp; Your character is following the exact same reasoning that you are.&nbsp; You are both thinking &quot;This is a puzzle and I need to find the answer to it.&quot;As I said above, metagaming is when you say &quot;Our DM likes puzzles with easy answers.&nbsp; He likely put some clues around here for me to look for.&nbsp; I look for clues!&quot;&nbsp; But simply solving a puzzle using your own reasoning power is not metagaming in the slightest.Because you aren't using your out of game Cha or Int.&nbsp; You are telling me what your character says and then you are making a roll to determine whether it succeeds if you make a diplomacy check.&nbsp; Your in game Cha matters.&nbsp; Just the strategy you are using comes from the player.&nbsp; If the character wants to see if he knows something or remembers something, you'll make an Int check and I'll tell you what your character knows or remembers.&nbsp; You don't have to remember for your character.&nbsp; You also don't have to memorize the campaign guide or monster manual.&nbsp; A roll will give you that information.But if we aren't asking players to make decisions anymore then why do we have players?&nbsp; Otherwise, following your logic the rest of the game would go like this:DM: &quot;Alright, it's your turn in combat.&nbsp; What do you do?&quot;Player: &quot;Wait...you are making me use my own intelligence to figure out what I do in combat?&nbsp; My character has an 18 Int.&nbsp; He's super smart.&nbsp; He'd know what to do.&nbsp; You tell me what I do in combat.&nbsp; Which spell should I cast in order to be most effective this round?&nbsp; I make a 22 Int check.&nbsp; I know.&quot;DM: &quot;Alright, you defeat the monsters, what do you do?&quot;Player: &quot;My character knows the smartest thing to do after defeating monsters...what's should I do?&quot;The players still need to actually play the game and that means making decisions based on the information they have.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 6412943, member: 5143"] I try not to rank the intelligence of my friends. I really don't know who is the smartest and who is the dumbest. I assume they are all average so I don't have to look down on anyone or feel inferior to anyone. Besides, Intelligence, as I've said is a measure of knowledge and ability to learn and remember. I don't like to think of it in terms of "You have an 8 Int, you are incapable of figuring this out." Both characters have an equal chance of figuring things out. One of them just has more knowledge and therefore more information on which to base their decision. Because metagaming is using the knowledge that this is a game in order to make your decision. Your character is following the exact same reasoning that you are. You are both thinking "This is a puzzle and I need to find the answer to it." As I said above, metagaming is when you say "Our DM likes puzzles with easy answers. He likely put some clues around here for me to look for. I look for clues!" But simply solving a puzzle using your own reasoning power is not metagaming in the slightest. Because you aren't using your out of game Cha or Int. You are telling me what your character says and then you are making a roll to determine whether it succeeds if you make a diplomacy check. Your in game Cha matters. Just the strategy you are using comes from the player. If the character wants to see if he knows something or remembers something, you'll make an Int check and I'll tell you what your character knows or remembers. You don't have to remember for your character. You also don't have to memorize the campaign guide or monster manual. A roll will give you that information. But if we aren't asking players to make decisions anymore then why do we have players? Otherwise, following your logic the rest of the game would go like this: DM: "Alright, it's your turn in combat. What do you do?" Player: "Wait...you are making me use my own intelligence to figure out what I do in combat? My character has an 18 Int. He's super smart. He'd know what to do. You tell me what I do in combat. Which spell should I cast in order to be most effective this round? I make a 22 Int check. I know." DM: "Alright, you defeat the monsters, what do you do?" Player: "My character knows the smartest thing to do after defeating monsters...what's should I do?" The players still need to actually play the game and that means making decisions based on the information they have. [/QUOTE]

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