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<blockquote data-quote="Rod Staffwand" data-source="post: 6413311" data-attributes="member: 6776279">I've long ago decided that &quot;Thou Shalt Play Thine PC's Mental Attributes Appropriately&quot; commandment is a can of worms best left closed. It leads to nothing but arguments about 95% of the time. The attributes might flavor the player's roleplaying, but shouldn't affect actual decision-making unless the player decides they should.Otherwise, you're left fumble about in a gray area of gut feelings, assumptions and biases with no clear guidance whatsoever. There's too much uncertainty in it to do something as intrusive as take decision-making away from a player (which is the only power they have in the game). The punishment is far worse than the crime.Taken to the extreme, you get things like:&quot;I'm sorry, you're character is too stupid to know what a sphere of annihilation is. Also, he's too stupid to know not to touch it. You touch it. Roll up a new character.&quot;&quot;Your Intelligence 22 wizard knows that he shouldn't move to that space and cast magic missile. What he should do is move here to avoid the AoO, cast fireball with his 5th level slot, center it on this space here so he can get these 7 guys in the burst.&quot;Puzzles that challenge players rather than characters have always been a part of D&amp;D. And, like any aspect of the game, they appeal to some players and not to others. I really like them as both a player and a DM. I use a lot of &quot;puzzle monsters&quot; that can only be defeated in a certain way and generally reward creative or fun solutions more than a flat out roll-fest. Why? Because I want my games to be filled with creativity and fun rather than just dice rolling.To balance the influence of player vs. character abilities, I typically use the previously stated method of have character abilities generate clues or provide insight into the challenge, with the final decision resting with the player. It also helps to be consistent with the level of input you are expecting from your players. If &quot;I search the room&quot; is good enough for the past three adventures, you shouldn't suddenly require a &quot;I search under the bed&quot; out of the blue.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Rod Staffwand, post: 6413311, member: 6776279"] I've long ago decided that "Thou Shalt Play Thine PC's Mental Attributes Appropriately" commandment is a can of worms best left closed. It leads to nothing but arguments about 95% of the time. The attributes might flavor the player's roleplaying, but shouldn't affect actual decision-making unless the player decides they should. Otherwise, you're left fumble about in a gray area of gut feelings, assumptions and biases with no clear guidance whatsoever. There's too much uncertainty in it to do something as intrusive as take decision-making away from a player (which is the only power they have in the game). The punishment is far worse than the crime. Taken to the extreme, you get things like: "I'm sorry, you're character is too stupid to know what a sphere of annihilation is. Also, he's too stupid to know not to touch it. You touch it. Roll up a new character." "Your Intelligence 22 wizard knows that he shouldn't move to that space and cast magic missile. What he should do is move here to avoid the AoO, cast fireball with his 5th level slot, center it on this space here so he can get these 7 guys in the burst." Puzzles that challenge players rather than characters have always been a part of D&D. And, like any aspect of the game, they appeal to some players and not to others. I really like them as both a player and a DM. I use a lot of "puzzle monsters" that can only be defeated in a certain way and generally reward creative or fun solutions more than a flat out roll-fest. Why? Because I want my games to be filled with creativity and fun rather than just dice rolling. To balance the influence of player vs. character abilities, I typically use the previously stated method of have character abilities generate clues or provide insight into the challenge, with the final decision resting with the player. It also helps to be consistent with the level of input you are expecting from your players. If "I search the room" is good enough for the past three adventures, you shouldn't suddenly require a "I search under the bed" out of the blue. [/QUOTE]

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