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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6416221" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>While this might be true and while passive perception works mechanically (i.e. it saves time due to a bunch of rolls not having to be made at the table), it does an extremely poor job of being fair.</p><p></p><p>Say, for example, that a given PC has a passive perception of 13.</p><p></p><p>Any trap that the DM assigns a DC of 13 or less has 100% chance of being found.</p><p>Any trap that the DM assigns a DC of 14 or more has a 0% chance of being found.</p><p></p><p>So whether a given trap can be found or not is determined by the DM, it's not determined by the player/PC getting lucky or unlucky.</p><p></p><p>I've always found passive perception (and passive insight) to be terrible rules disguised as time saving rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In 5E, our DM added a house rule for surprise rounds that the surprised side rolls perception instead of using passive perception.</p><p></p><p>The reason is the same as above.</p><p></p><p>Per group of monsters using core rules (i.e. a group of monsters is any monster that has the same passive perception), that group is either 0% surprised, or 100% surprised.</p><p></p><p>With the house rule, every single monster has a chance of being surprised and of being not surprised. The reason for the house rule was due to how potent surprise is in 5e. Since the ambushing side now has all of their actions (and not just a standard action like in 4E), surprise is a lot more potent now. At our table, the PCs were wiping through groups of monsters without even breaking a sweat or using up resources. It was so lopsided.</p><p></p><p>But, the house rule cuts both ways. When PCs surprise monsters, it waters down how potent their attack is. But, the same occurs for when monsters surprise PCs. Combat becomes a little bit less swingy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 6416221, member: 2011"] While this might be true and while passive perception works mechanically (i.e. it saves time due to a bunch of rolls not having to be made at the table), it does an extremely poor job of being fair. Say, for example, that a given PC has a passive perception of 13. Any trap that the DM assigns a DC of 13 or less has 100% chance of being found. Any trap that the DM assigns a DC of 14 or more has a 0% chance of being found. So whether a given trap can be found or not is determined by the DM, it's not determined by the player/PC getting lucky or unlucky. I've always found passive perception (and passive insight) to be terrible rules disguised as time saving rules. In 5E, our DM added a house rule for surprise rounds that the surprised side rolls perception instead of using passive perception. The reason is the same as above. Per group of monsters using core rules (i.e. a group of monsters is any monster that has the same passive perception), that group is either 0% surprised, or 100% surprised. With the house rule, every single monster has a chance of being surprised and of being not surprised. The reason for the house rule was due to how potent surprise is in 5e. Since the ambushing side now has all of their actions (and not just a standard action like in 4E), surprise is a lot more potent now. At our table, the PCs were wiping through groups of monsters without even breaking a sweat or using up resources. It was so lopsided. But, the house rule cuts both ways. When PCs surprise monsters, it waters down how potent their attack is. But, the same occurs for when monsters surprise PCs. Combat becomes a little bit less swingy. [/QUOTE]
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