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Character play vs Player play
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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6421840" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>I don't need to go back and re-read them I didnt make a stateent about your reasons but everything equal you favor the player over the DM. You apparently think that that's a good enough reason (because I want/like it) to include something if a player (vs. a DM) suggests it. This example gets to the heart of the matter if we're going to declare everyone equal why should the default be that the DM accommodate a single player? Just like with the details situation we're currently discussing you've now elevated the player and his/her fun above the DM's... Is a single player's like or dislike any more "valid" than the DM's? Especially if the DM now has to deal with, produce hooks and adventures around, and cater to something on a regular basis he doesn't like? How is that fair for the DM? See for me, at this point we've moved into the realm of the DM's enjoyment being less important than the player's.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Eh, I have serious doubts about your reasoning behind why players come to a table with not ties, as orphans, etc. A powergamer may just not that weakness... others may simply not be that invested in the game or even want to be. Your broad generalization here is simplistic and biased to support your own views.</p><p></p><p>As to the DM having control.. you're still not telling me why... player creating minor world details = good but DM creating minor PC details = bad? No one needs to do either of these things, so it's not about the DM or the players needing to do either one. If there is mutual trust and everyone is working towards producing fun for everyone in the group as a whole what inherently makes one a bad thing and the other a good thing? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The DM could use it as foreshadowing... Hey Bob, Drugar the Barbarian feels an old scar under his armor begin to ache and throb with a dull pain, just as it does whenever a storm approaches...</p><p></p><p>The DM could use it to move the game forward after a failure... Okay guys your forged invitations to the ball arouse the suspicion of the guards and as they go to confirm the validity of the invites you quickly make your way towards the streets. However you don't get 10 ft away before Elowyn spot a wealthy one-time suitor of hers that she was arranged to marry... he and his entourage all apparently are headed to the ball and he notices Elowyn as you all cross each others path...</p><p></p><p>The DM could use it to give hints... Ok, Aeorn, this stone portal door looks familiar to the trapped doors of the gnome jewel smiths of Leth K'orn... they also seem, to be equipped with mechanisms you are at least passingly familiar with...</p><p></p><p>IMO, the fact that you couldn't think of ways DM's could use narrative and authorial power over characters to enhance a game shows your bias...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 6421840, member: 48965"] I don't need to go back and re-read them I didnt make a stateent about your reasons but everything equal you favor the player over the DM. You apparently think that that's a good enough reason (because I want/like it) to include something if a player (vs. a DM) suggests it. This example gets to the heart of the matter if we're going to declare everyone equal why should the default be that the DM accommodate a single player? Just like with the details situation we're currently discussing you've now elevated the player and his/her fun above the DM's... Is a single player's like or dislike any more "valid" than the DM's? Especially if the DM now has to deal with, produce hooks and adventures around, and cater to something on a regular basis he doesn't like? How is that fair for the DM? See for me, at this point we've moved into the realm of the DM's enjoyment being less important than the player's. Eh, I have serious doubts about your reasoning behind why players come to a table with not ties, as orphans, etc. A powergamer may just not that weakness... others may simply not be that invested in the game or even want to be. Your broad generalization here is simplistic and biased to support your own views. As to the DM having control.. you're still not telling me why... player creating minor world details = good but DM creating minor PC details = bad? No one needs to do either of these things, so it's not about the DM or the players needing to do either one. If there is mutual trust and everyone is working towards producing fun for everyone in the group as a whole what inherently makes one a bad thing and the other a good thing? The DM could use it as foreshadowing... Hey Bob, Drugar the Barbarian feels an old scar under his armor begin to ache and throb with a dull pain, just as it does whenever a storm approaches... The DM could use it to move the game forward after a failure... Okay guys your forged invitations to the ball arouse the suspicion of the guards and as they go to confirm the validity of the invites you quickly make your way towards the streets. However you don't get 10 ft away before Elowyn spot a wealthy one-time suitor of hers that she was arranged to marry... he and his entourage all apparently are headed to the ball and he notices Elowyn as you all cross each others path... The DM could use it to give hints... Ok, Aeorn, this stone portal door looks familiar to the trapped doors of the gnome jewel smiths of Leth K'orn... they also seem, to be equipped with mechanisms you are at least passingly familiar with... IMO, the fact that you couldn't think of ways DM's could use narrative and authorial power over characters to enhance a game shows your bias... [/QUOTE]
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