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<blockquote data-quote="Mark CMG" data-source="post: 6422038" data-attributes="member: 10479">There is a broad spectrum of GMs and players who have and still do only play RPGs as they were originally crafted, and some games produced in recent times that still reflect that original RPGing sensibility.&nbsp; A few of them have been discussed in this thread, like DCC.That's not a word I used or would but rather I'd say they are parts of storytelling games which also utilize many of the elements of (so called &quot;trad&quot;) RPGs.I would have to agree, as I have all along, that some approaches to using storytelling game elements in RPGs have been around for quite some time and even predate actual storytelling games.&nbsp;&nbsp; The OP subject of the thread &quot;Character play vs Player play&quot; had been devolving for a while before I popped in to pinpoint the divide between (&quot;trad&quot;) RPGs and storytelling game elements being used in RPGs as a fundamental difference that gives further rise to confusion on the OP topic.&nbsp; I'd have to contend that without confusion over this divide there might have been less confusion over the OP topic.You have to remember, there are still a great many GMs who view RPGs mainly as a game and not as a means of crafting a story.&nbsp; The story that comes from any (again, &quot;trad&quot;) RPG play is incidental to the actual game.&nbsp; Furthermore, and to bring it back around to the OP, discussion of &quot;Character play vs Player play&quot; is muddied without being aware of and understanding the fundamental difference of playing RPGs with and without storytelling elements.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mark CMG, post: 6422038, member: 10479"] There is a broad spectrum of GMs and players who have and still do only play RPGs as they were originally crafted, and some games produced in recent times that still reflect that original RPGing sensibility. A few of them have been discussed in this thread, like DCC. That's not a word I used or would but rather I'd say they are parts of storytelling games which also utilize many of the elements of (so called "trad") RPGs. I would have to agree, as I have all along, that some approaches to using storytelling game elements in RPGs have been around for quite some time and even predate actual storytelling games. The OP subject of the thread "Character play vs Player play" had been devolving for a while before I popped in to pinpoint the divide between ("trad") RPGs and storytelling game elements being used in RPGs as a fundamental difference that gives further rise to confusion on the OP topic. I'd have to contend that without confusion over this divide there might have been less confusion over the OP topic. You have to remember, there are still a great many GMs who view RPGs mainly as a game and not as a means of crafting a story. The story that comes from any (again, "trad") RPG play is incidental to the actual game. Furthermore, and to bring it back around to the OP, discussion of "Character play vs Player play" is muddied without being aware of and understanding the fundamental difference of playing RPGs with and without storytelling elements. [/QUOTE]

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